Dr. John Vervaeke and Dr. Jordan B. Peterson discuss the relationship between calling and conscience, the three dimensions of the sacred, restructuring Descartes' famous conclusion, Socrates's Daemon, and the bridging of morality and meaning.
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Quick takeaways
Rediscovering the sacred and rectifying the meaning crisis by reclaiming deep and meaningful aspects of life.
Exploring the transformative, healing, and liberating aspects of the sacred as a response to the meaning crisis.
The importance of deep insights and revelations in the spiritual journey, achieved through confessing insufficiency and testing gained insights.
The significance of cultivating a dialogical relationship and holding both finitude and transcendence together for human flourishing.
Deep dives
The Journey into the Sacred and the Counter-Enlightenment
The podcast episode delves into the idea of rediscovering the sacred and rectifying the meaning crisis. The speakers discuss their work on the edge of what can be described as the counter-enlightenment, aiming to bring back the deep and meaningful aspects of life. They explore the proposition of reclaiming what has been lost in abstract and representational processes. The conversation evolves into a discussion on the importance of understanding the sacred as a transformative, healing, and liberating force. The speakers also touch on the practice of humility, seeking revelations, and testing the insights that emerge.
Exploring the Philosophical Silk Road
Dr. John Viveki discusses his upcoming sabbatical project of walking the philosophical Silk Road. This project traces the Neoplatonic tradition in Europe and the Zen tradition in Japan, aiming to explore the deep dialogue that can emerge between these philosophical perspectives. With the goal of investigating thinkers from various cultures and bringing their ideas to a wide audience, Dr. Viveki's quest reflects the idea of making oneself available to the new advent of the sacred as a response to the meaning crisis.
The Role of the Viveki Foundation
The conversation shifts to the Viveki Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to funding and supporting various educational and public-facing projects. The foundation raises funds to support initiatives such as meditation sessions, dialectic training, and courses on different subjects. Additionally, the foundation works on creating a platform called Awakened to Meaning to provide access to various levels of academic content and engage with different audiences. The speakers also discuss the potential use of AI technology in enhancing educational resources and philosophical interpretations.
Deepening Insights and the Practices of Revelation
The discussion explores the importance of deep insights and revelations as essential components of the spiritual journey. They highlight the iterative process of confessing one's insufficiency, asking fundamental questions, receiving revelations, and testing the insights gained. Both speakers present their practices of engaging in dialogue with their conscience, consciousness, and character. This process allows for the transformation of one's orientation and the discovery of profound truths. The conversation emphasizes the role of humility, faith, and the pursuit of the ineffable in this journey of deepening insights and revelations.
The importance of maintaining a dialogical relationship
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the importance of cultivating a dialogical relationship. The speaker recounts a personal experience where an archetypal presence appeared and emphasized the need for dialogue. This presence, identified as Hermes, urged the speaker to develop a relationship akin to that of Socrates. The speaker considers this dialogical relationship as a promise and a commitment to navigate the complexities of existence. They also highlight the significance of holding both finitude and transcendence together, drawing inspiration from the philosophical proposal of Plato. Overall, the speaker emphasizes the transformative potential of dialogue and its role in fostering human flourishing.
The connection between the sacred and intelligibility
Another key point explored in this podcast episode is the relationship between the sacred and intelligibility. The speaker draws upon neoplatonic and philosophical perspectives to argue that the sacred is an inexhaustible fount of intelligibility. They suggest that the sacred is not reducible to moral or emotional states, but rather an orienting force that transcends subjective experience. The speaker discusses their own experiences with texts such as Plato's Republic, highlighting the transformative power that arises from engaging with sacred concepts. They propose that a life connected to the sacred provides a deep sense of meaning and explores the inherent interplay between rationality and the sacred.
The interplay between morality and meaning in life
The interplay between morality and meaning in life constitutes the third main idea discussed in this podcast episode. The speaker examines the dissociation between conceptualizing morality solely in terms of duty and a broader sense of meaning. They draw upon examples of situations in which individuals lead highly moral lives but may still experience a lack of meaning. Likewise, individuals may find great meaning in life even in the absence of highly moral conduct. The speaker highlights the significance of connection and personhood alongside sensory-motor mastery in generating meaning. They caution against reducing morality purely to emotional states and emphasize the need to focus on a multi-dimensional structure of meaning for a fulfilling life.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in person with Dr. John Vervaeke. They discuss the relationship between your calling and your conscience, the three dimensions of the sacred, how Descartes famous “I think therefore I am” conclusion might be restructured in modern day, what exactly Socrates’s Daemon was, and the bridging of morality and meaning.
John Vervaeke is an Associate Professor in Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Science at the University of Toronto. His work constructs a bridge between science and spirituality in order to understand the experience of meaningfulness and the cultivation of wisdom so as to afford awakening from the meaning crisis.
After Socrates (Series) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOwjmZx12gk&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuj6q5NP_fXjBzUT1p_qYSCC
The Vervaeke Foundation https://vervaekefoundation.org/
“Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis” (book) https://www.amazon.com/Zombies-Western-Culture-Twenty-First-Century/dp/1783743298
"Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow" (Book) https://www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Orientation-Artificially-Intelligent/dp/1645010821/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1705353143&refinements=p_27%3AJohn+Vervaeke&s=books&sr=1-2&text=John+Vervaeke
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