Jeremy Lent (Part 2) – Big Picture Systems Thinking: A Key Practice for Understanding, Transforming, and Preserving Civilization

Ep. 142 (Part 2 of 2) | Award-winning author of The Web of Meaning and founder of the Deep Transformation Network, Jeremy Lent, relates how his discovery of systems thinking opened the door to a whole new way of making sense of the world and illumined his in depth exploration of what creates meaning. In looking into what forms concepts like God, soul, humanity, nature, and science, Jeremy came to understand the thinking that has led to the existential crisis we face now, then began to explore what it would take to break out of the worldview that has caused so much destruction on so many levels. Jeremy integrates systems thinking with concepts from evolutionary biology, neuroscience, ecology, and traditional and indigenous wisdom, forming a holistic view of science, where “maybe the distinction between science and spirituality isn’t really valid.”

Jeremy’s heartfelt intention is to act as translator—to make it enjoyable for people to explore difficult concepts like consciousness and evolutionary biology they might otherwise steer away from—as well as be a catalyst for large-scale transformation. His vision of a potential future “ecological civilization” builds on the evolutionary success of life itself—ecosystems living in mutual symbiosis—and includes the idea of “islands of coherence” which would provide a bridge from a disintegrating society to a new and flourishing one. Systems thinking, like indigenous wisdom, recognizes the deep connectedness of all things, a realization, Jeremy points out, that leads to the knowing that nothing is inevitable and the choices we make matter. Jeremy leaves us with a sense of agency and of liberation, as well as a sense of responsibility to work together in the shaping of a life-affirming, sustainable future. Recorded June 20, 2024.

“Based on a deep understanding of systems thinking, there is nothing inevitable about any of this.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• Can flourishing-of-the-commons ideas be scaled beyond small, local ventures? (01:25)
• Polycentric self-organization: a large region in Syria has instituted a form of government called democratic confederalism (03:53)
• Where are the most strategic places to intervene? (08:45)
• Becoming a transformation catalyst—amplifying the entire system of people moving toward a life-affirming future (09:59)
• Neoliberalism is a great model for successfully transforming a culture’s dominant ideas and creating fundamental change (13:13)
• Is there any hope of a rapid evolutionary leap to a more beautiful, more functional system? (17:18)
• Breaking through to the next level will require self-organizing and setting conditions for prosocial behavior on a global level (21:23)
• Understanding that the choices we make matter gives us a sense of agency, liberation, and responsibility (24:46)
• It’s important to move away from attachment to outcome—just do the right thing to do (28:18)
• The necessary perspectival shifts will only occur in people at a post-conventional stage of development (30:51)
• Animate intelligence is an intuitive system that allows people to feel their heart (33:24)
• Creating a life-affirming future (37:14)
• Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields (39:05)
• From a systems perspective, these are principles of connectivity (42:18)

Resources & References – Part 2

• Jeremy Lent’s website: https://www.jeremylent.com/
• Jeremy Lent, founder of the Deep Transformation Network
• Jeremy Lent, The Web of Meaning: Integrating Science and Traditional Wisdom to Find Our Place in the Universe*
• Jeremy Lent, The Patterning of Instinct: A Cultural History of Humanity’s Search for Meaning*
• Elinor Ostrom, Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action*
• David Sloan Wilson, This View of Life: Completing the Darwinian Revolution*
• Christiana Figueres & Tom Rivett-Carnac, The Future We Choose: The Stubborn Optimist’s Guide to the Climate Crisis*
• Sandra Waddock, Transforming Towards Life-centered Economies: How Business, Government, and Civil Society Can Build a Better World*
• Ilya Prigogine’s small islands of coherence
• Neoliberalism, the Mont Pelerin Society, the Overton Window
• The Fermi paradox
• Antonio Damasio’s theory of consciousness, The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness*
• Gerald Edelman’s primary consciousness, The Remembered Present: A Biological Theory of Consciousness*
• Rupert Sheldrake, Morphic Resonance and Morphic Fields: An Introduction

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Jeremy Lent is an author and speaker whose work investigates the underlying causes of our civilization’s existential crisis, and explores pathways toward a life-affirming future. His award-winning books, The Patterning Instinct: A Cultural History of Humanity’s Search for Meaning and The Web of Meaning: Integrating Science and Traditional Wisdom to Find Our Place in the Universe, trace the historical underpinnings and flaws of the dominant worldview, and offer a foundation for an integrative worldview that could lead humanity to a flourishing future. He has written extensively about the vision and specifics of an ecological civilization and is founder of the Deep Transformation Network, an online global community exploring pathways for a deep transformation toward a life-affirming future on a regenerated Earth. Author website: jeremylent.com

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell