Unprecedented: Sasha Abramsky & Thomas Zimmer on the Crisis We Face
Feb 16, 2025
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Sasha Abramsky, a journalist and author focusing on the far-right's influence in small-town America, warns about the dehumanization of vulnerable groups and the dire effects of social program cuts. Historian Thomas Zimmer discusses the recent constitutional crises under the Trump regime, exploring how authoritarianism and extremist factions have reshaped American democracy. Together, they emphasize the urgent need for collective action to counter these alarming trends and protect civil rights.
The podcast illustrates that the rise of fascism in the U.S. reflects a profound worldview shift, not just policy disagreements.
Dehumanization of vulnerable groups, especially immigrants, reinforces oppressive policies and undermines societal values and norms.
Activists are called to unite and participate in protests, emphasizing the importance of grassroots actions in resisting authoritarianism.
Deep dives
The Shift in Worldviews
The episode emphasizes that the current political climate is not merely a debate over policies but a fundamental shift in worldviews, reflecting a desire for regime change rather than just a transition of power. This shift resembles historical fascist movements, suggesting that a disintegration of established norms and civil rights is underway. The speaker warns against viewing this as a typical political scenario, as the intention is to dominate and reshape societal structures completely. It’s portrayed as a critical moment where immediate action is necessary to counteract these sweeping changes.
Urgent Call to Action
Listeners are called to join nationwide protests as an urgent response to the perceived rise of fascism. Activists are urged to unite against what they label as a concerted effort to dismantle fundamental democratic norms and civil rights. The protests are framed as a vital demonstration of collective resistance, underscoring the importance of public action against authoritarian tendencies. There’s an emphasis on local actions and community engagement as essential components of this movement.
Dehumanization in Trumpism
A key discussion revolves around the role of dehumanization within Trump’s political landscape, particularly targeting marginalized groups like immigrants. This dehumanization serves to justify harsh policy decisions, such as the treatment of immigrants and the abandonment of international aid programs. The rhetoric surrounding immigrants being 'dangerous' is highlighted as a strategic narrative that reinforces their marginalization. The conversation illuminates the dangerous implications of such ideologies, showing how they lead to real-world harm and suffering.
Fascist Consolidation and Governance
The podcast delves into the efforts to consolidate fascist governance, which aims to dismantle government functions that provide aid to citizens. There are concerns regarding the targeting of specific groups, particularly trans individuals and immigrants, alongside an aggressive rejection of scientific and public health initiatives. The actions are characterized as part of a larger strategy to create a government that serves only a select few while neglecting broader humanitarian responsibilities. This aspect of governance is viewed as a bullying tactic intended to instill fear and compliance within society.
Counter-Revolutionary Ideology
Discussion highlights the emergence of counter-revolutionary ideologies spearheaded by figures like Russell Vought, who advocate for a radical reconceptualization of government. The podcast points out that these ideologues perceive the existing government structure as a leftist stronghold, necessitating its dismantling and reformation. This calls into question the principles of democracy and civil rights, pushing for a society predominantly reflecting patriarchal and Christian nationalist ideals. Their agenda is seen as a form of retrenchment intended to erase progress made in civil rights and expanded democracy.
Resistance and Potential Outcomes
The conversation reflects the tension between compliance and resistance within the current political environment, suggesting that the stakes are higher than ever. There’s an acknowledgment that meaningful pushback against the regime might lead to violence, heightening the risks involved in opposing authoritarianism. Participants underscore the necessity for finding creative and impactful ways to resist an administration that seeks to undermine democratic institutions. They stress that failure to act decisively will likely result in the regime achieving its authoritarian goals.
Sam shares an excerpt from Refuse Fascism's Virtual Forum "Only The People Can Defeat Fascism" featuring commentary from Paul Street and Sunsara Taylor. You can view the entire forum here. She then interviews Sasha Abramsky, author ofChaos Comes Calling and Western Correspondent for The Nation. In this conversation, Sasha discusses the rapid ascent of fascism, emphasizing the dehumanization of vulnerable populations, the role of propaganda, and the transformation of government under the Trump Regime. He highlights the immediate consequences of slashing social programs, the global implications of U.S. policies, and the impact of paramilitary forces on the rule of law. Follow Sasha on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sashaabramsky.bsky.social.
Then Sam interviews historian Thomas Zimmer, co-host of the "Is this Democracy" podcast, to discuss the qualitative transformation of the US government over the course of the last month, through constitutional crisis to the brink of categorically ending constitutional order. The conversation examines the deadly synergy between varied factions and key figures within the fascist movement, highlighting Russel Vought and Elon Musk. Read more from him by subscribing to his substack: http://thomaszimmer.substack.com/. Follow Thomas on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/thomaszimmer.bsky.social.
