Refuse Fascism

Unprecedented: Sasha Abramsky & Thomas Zimmer on the Crisis We Face

Feb 16, 2025

Sasha Abramsky, a journalist and author focusing on the far-right's influence in small-town America, warns about the dehumanization of vulnerable groups and the dire effects of social program cuts. Historian Thomas Zimmer discusses the recent constitutional crises under the Trump regime, exploring how authoritarianism and extremist factions have reshaped American democracy. Together, they emphasize the urgent need for collective action to counter these alarming trends and protect civil rights.

01:21:38

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Episode guests

Thomas Zimmer

Sasha Abramsky

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

The podcast illustrates that the rise of fascism in the U.S. reflects a profound worldview shift, not just policy disagreements.

Dehumanization of vulnerable groups, especially immigrants, reinforces oppressive policies and undermines societal values and norms.

Activists are called to unite and participate in protests, emphasizing the importance of grassroots actions in resisting authoritarianism.

Deep dives

The Shift in Worldviews

The episode emphasizes that the current political climate is not merely a debate over policies but a fundamental shift in worldviews, reflecting a desire for regime change rather than just a transition of power. This shift resembles historical fascist movements, suggesting that a disintegration of established norms and civil rights is underway. The speaker warns against viewing this as a typical political scenario, as the intention is to dominate and reshape societal structures completely. It’s portrayed as a critical moment where immediate action is necessary to counteract these sweeping changes.

Intro

5min

Countering the Rise of Fascism

10min

Dehumanization and Authoritarianism in Modern Discourse

20min

A Shifting National Identity: From Beacon of Hope to Iron Fist

2min

Erosion of Democracy: A Political Crisis

32min

The Rise of Christian Nationalism in Politics

4min

Navigating the Threat to Democracy: Choices and Consequences

6min

Connecting for Democracy: Calls to Action and Engagement

2min

Sam shares an excerpt from Refuse Fascism's Virtual Forum "Only The People Can Defeat Fascism" featuring commentary from Paul Street and Sunsara Taylor. You can view the entire forum here. She then interviews Sasha Abramsky, author of Chaos Comes Calling and Western Correspondent for The Nation. In this conversation, Sasha discusses the rapid ascent of fascism, emphasizing the dehumanization of vulnerable populations, the role of propaganda, and the transformation of government under the Trump Regime. He highlights the immediate consequences of slashing social programs, the global implications of U.S. policies, and the impact of paramilitary forces on the rule of law. Follow Sasha on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sashaabramsky.bsky.social.

Then Sam interviews historian Thomas Zimmer, co-host of the "Is this Democracy" podcast, to discuss the qualitative transformation of the US government over the course of the last month, through constitutional crisis to the brink of categorically ending constitutional order. The conversation examines the deadly synergy between varied factions and key figures within the fascist movement, highlighting Russel Vought and Elon Musk. Read more from him by subscribing to his substack: http://thomaszimmer.substack.com/. Follow Thomas on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/thomaszimmer.bsky.social.

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown