How many minutes per week do you think you can be exactly yourself?

That’s the question that host Steve Cuss poses at the beginning of this episode, and it takes on specific meaning as he converses with his guest, Marvin Williams. Williams is the lead pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan, and is currently earning his doctorate in systems theory, particularly as it pertains to the African-American experience. His forthcoming dissertation, My Whole Black Self, considers what it’s like to be exactly yourself and what happens when people cannot be exactly themselves. 

Cuss and Williams discuss what drew Williams to systems theory, how leadership starts with personal transformation, and what it looks like to live in one’s identity fully. They talk about bullying, anxiety, and the Black writers, thinkers, and experts who have influenced Williams’ perspective. The two discuss connectedness, what it’s like to be in majority culture spaces, and how calmness is not always the opposite of anxiety. Their discussion also explores violence against Black Americans, the nuances of pastoring, and the role of politics in the life of the church. 

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Marvin Williams
• A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman
• Murray Bowen
• Bowen family systems theory
• Trisha Taylor
• “To Belong to One Another: Remaining Calm and Curious in Times of High Anxiety” with Rich Villodas
• The Souls of Black Folk from W.E.B. Du Bois
• Psychological Storms: The African American Struggle for Identity by Thomas Parham
• Charlie Dates
• Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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