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Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
Mastering paid growth | Jonathan Becker (Thrive Digital)
May 7, 2023
01:34:55
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Quick takeaways
- Paid growth requires diversifying marketing channels and understanding their nuances.
- Creatives play a crucial role in driving the performance of paid advertising campaigns.
- Emerging opportunities in performance marketing exist on platforms like TikTok and Amazon.
- Recommended books include Storyworthy, Shoe Dog, and American Kingpin.
- Embracing change and adaptability is crucial in the dynamic field of performance marketing.
Deep dives
The power of AI in improving efficiency and human capital
AI is being used to optimize work processes and minimize manual tasks, resulting in displacement of certain roles. However, it has led to a shift in the nature of work, with a focus on more strategic and creative tasks rather than implementation and analysis. AI can generate rough drafts and creative mockups at a fraction of the time, empowering teams to iterate and improve. The key is to understand how to leverage AI effectively and ask the right questions to drive innovation and growth.
Paid growth and the importance of diversifying marketing channels
Paid growth, also known as performance marketing, can be a powerful channel for scaling a business. However, it is important to avoid over-reliance on a single channel, such as Google or Facebook. Diversifying marketing channels, including social media platforms like TikTok and Amazon, can provide additional opportunities for growth. Each channel has its own nuances and effectiveness may vary depending on the business model and target audience. Understanding the marketing economics, creative testing, and iterating based on data are key to finding success in paid growth.
The critical role of creatives in optimizing paid advertising
Creatives play a crucial role in driving the performance of paid advertising campaigns. Highly polished and brand-focused assets may not always be the most effective. Authentic and user-generated content often resonates better with audiences. Rigorous creative testing and iteration are essential for understanding what works best for different stages of the marketing funnel and target audiences. Creative assets need to be tailored to engage and convert users, and continuous testing is necessary to refine and improve performance.
Exploring new opportunities in performance marketing
While Google and Facebook remain dominant channels, there are emerging opportunities in performance marketing on platforms like TikTok and Amazon. TikTok, in particular, offers a highly engaged audience with relatively lower competition, providing potential for cost-effective advertising and brand building. Success on TikTok often involves leveraging user-generated content and influencer partnerships. Amazon presents opportunities for direct-to-consumer (D2C) and retail-focused brands. It is important to consider the specific dynamics of each channel and align them with the target audience and marketing objectives.
The Power of Storytelling and Knowing Your Craft
Storyworthy by Matthew Dix is a recommended book for marketers, as it delves into the art of storytelling. The book emphasizes the importance of structuring stories and is a valuable resource. Another book recommendation is Shoe Dog, which tells the story of Nike and the challenges they faced. It highlights the significance of taking risks and staying resilient. American Kingpin is also mentioned as an interesting read, as it combines elements of tech startup stories and gangster narratives. The book details the creation of Silk Road, a dark web marketplace. These books provide insights into entrepreneurship, storytelling, and the exciting world of startups.
Favorite Recent Movies and TV Shows
The Big Short is a highly recommended movie, as it resonates with marketers who find truth in data and capitalize on it, similar to what is done in performance marketing. White Lotus is also mentioned as a recent favorite TV show, offering pure entertainment value.
The Impact of Embracing Change and Adaptability
While not a specific tool, the ability to embrace and adapt to change is highlighted as a crucial factor in operating a successful performance marketing agency. This includes having a willingness to explore new technologies, such as AI, as well as creatively finding solutions to challenges posed by changes in the industry, like shifting privacy policies or evolving platforms.
Underrated Tool for Performance Marketing Work
The Thrive Stack tool, developed in-house by Thrive Digital, is highlighted as a valuable and underrated tool for performance marketing. It allows for data integration, visualization, and delivering actionable insights by incorporating third-party and customer-level data.
Connect with Jonathan Becker and Thrive
You can find Jonathan Becker on LinkedIn under his name or on Twitter as JZ Becker. To learn more about Thrive Digital, visit their website at thrivedigital.com. Jonathan welcomes feedback, discussions, and potential team members who are passionate about performance marketing and growth marketing.
Summary
Jonathan Becker, Co-founder of Thrive Digital, shares insights into the world of performance marketing. He recommends books like Storyworthy by Matthew Dix, Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, and American Kingpin to gain valuable perspectives on storytelling, entrepreneurship, and startup journeys. Jonathan mentions The Big Short as a highly recommended movie and White Lotus as an entertaining TV show. Thrive Stack, an in-house tool, is highlighted as an underrated tool for performance marketing, enabling data integration and visualization. Jonathan stresses the importance of embracing change and adaptability in the dynamic field of performance marketing. He welcomes connections on LinkedIn and Twitter, invites feedback, and encourages individuals passionate about performance marketing to join the Thrive team.
Brought to you by Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life
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Jonathan Becker is the founder and president of Thrive Digital, where he and his team have deployed more than $3.5 billion in paid acquisition budgets for companies like Uber, Asana, Square, Tempur-Pedic, and MasterClass. He spent the first part of his career mastering SEO and is a world expert in DTC, lead generation, demand generation, and user acquisition. In today’s episode, we discuss:
• Signs that your company is a good fit for paid growth
• Strategies for optimizing ad creatives
• The merits of different marketing channels: paid vs. organic search, TikTok and short-form
• Insights on attribution and how to approach it effectively
• How market conditions and AI impact paid growth
• The crazy story of how Jonathan won Uber as a client
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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/mastering-paid-growth-jonathan-becker
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Where to find Jonathan Becker:
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/jzbecker
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanbecker123/
• Website: https://thrivedigital.com/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Jonathan’s background
(07:25) The crazy story of how Jonathan won Uber as a client
(11:56) Interchangeable terms for “paid growth”
(12:31) Why you shouldn’t put all your eggs in one basket
(16:48) What kind of companies should pursue paid growth
(23:07) Is it possible to reach scale exclusively through paid growth?
(27:07) The evolution of performance marketing
(29:39) Advice for founders choosing between SEO and paid
(32:18) Strategies for optimizing ad creatives
(44:43) Paid vs. organic search, TikTok and short-form
(49:56) Where to spend money in order to drive growth for B2B SaaS
(55:06) Attribution in performance marketing
(1:04:18) The impact of AI on paid growth
(1:12:52) Advice for early-stage startups on hiring in-house vs. hiring an agency
(1:17:09) Qualifications to look for in your hires
(1:23:23) How Jonathan won Snapchat as a client
(1:28:55) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Andrew Wilkinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilkinson/
• Garrett Camp: https://www.forbes.com/profile/garrett-camp/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/
• Grammarly: https://app.grammarly.com/
• Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/en
• Supermetrics: https://supermetrics.com/
• Recast: https://getrecast.com/
• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/
• DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2
• Storyworthy: https://www.amazon.com/Storyworthy-Engage-Persuade-through-Storytelling/dp/1608685489
• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-Nike-ebook/dp/B0176M1A44
• American Kingpin: https://www.amazon.com/American-Kingpin-Criminal-Mastermind-Behind/dp/1591848148
• The Big Short: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596363/
• White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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