Debating the Science and Ethics of IVF: Emma Waters vs. Ruxandra Teslo

Jun 6, 2025

Ruxandra Teslo, a Genomics Ph.D. student from the University of Cambridge, and Emma Waters, a bioethics policy analyst at The Heritage Foundation, dive deep into the controversial world of in vitro fertilization (IVF). They discuss the ethics of embryo selection and the societal implications of such advancements. Key topics include the moral status of embryos, the impact of reproductive technology on women's careers, and the need for accessible fertility treatments. Their engaging debate raises crucial questions about the future of reproductive health and technology.

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INSIGHT

IVF and Greedy Careers

Women in "greedy careers" delay childbearing due to time demands, risking fertility issues.
IVF and improved reproductive technologies can help these women have children later in life.

INSIGHT

Infertility Complexity and IVF Limits

Infertility is a complex symptom with multiple causes affecting both men and women equally.
IVF addresses the symptom but not the underlying reproductive health issues causing infertility.

ADVICE

Egg Freezing Timing Advice

Freeze eggs ideally before age 35, targeting around 26 for maximum egg health.
Women need to freeze enough eggs early to increase chances of successful pregnancy later.

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How should the government treat in vitro fertilization (IVF)? Should they regulate it more? Should they subsidize it? Just asking questions.

The above are all questions that the Trump administration is actively considering in the wake of an executive order seeking to expand access to IVF. President Donald Trump previously declared himself "the fertilization president" while speaking at a women's conference.

Today's guests have thought about a lot about reproductive technology, birth rates, and family policy, each arriving at some very different conclusions at times. Ruxandra Teslo is a genomics Ph.D. student at the University of Cambridge and writes often about fertility and technology at Ruxandra's Substack. Emma Waters is a reproductive technology and bioethics policy analyst at The Heritage Foundation. In this discussion, they debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization, discuss recent scientific advancements such as the ability to create eggs from other types of cells and three-parent embryos, and the emerging market in "embryo selection" that allows parents to choose between embryos with different genetic traits.

Mentioned in this podcast:

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Expands Access to In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)
"Total U.S. fertility rate: births per woman," by Our World in Data.
"Fertility on demand," by Ruxandra Teslo.
"Gameto Announces World's First Live Birth Using Fertilo Procedure that Matures Eggs Outside the Body," by Gameto.

Chapters

00:00 Podcast theme
00:28 Introduction and IVF Policy Context
01:49 IVF as a Solution for Ambitious Women
05:21 IVF Critiqued for Ignoring Root Causes
08:59 A Rebuttal: IVF Still Has Value Despite Limits
13:33 Egg Freezing: When, How, and Why It Works
17:18 The Motherhood Penalty in High-Pressure Careers
20:38 Reframing Motherhood as a Gift, Not a Penalty
24:27 Parenthood's Transformative Impact
27:23 Supporting Fertility Into the Late 30s
31:47 Income, Incentives, and Family Wealth Dynamics
34:48 Is IVF Reliable Enough to Justify Delaying Kids?
38:48 Innovations in Fertility and IVF Technologies
41:54 Raising Ethical Concerns About Future Reproductive Tech
44:35 Does Selection Technology Devalue Life?
48:21 IVF, Embryo Selection, and Suffering
50:52 Selection Ethics: Miscarriage vs Discarding Embryos
56:20 Grappling with the Moral Weight of Miscarriage
1:00:06 The Core Disagreement: What Is a Human Embryo?
1:06:45 IVF, Ethics, and the Boundaries of Human Life
1:10:31 Can IVF Be Practiced Without Destroying Embryos?
1:21:10 A Life-Affirming Model for IVF Treatment
1:24:56 Cultural Shifts and Valuing All Stages of Life
1:26:35 Fertility Policy: Subsidies, Research, and Cultural Norms

Producer: John Osterhoudt

The post Debating the Science and Ethics of IVF: Emma Waters vs. Ruxandra Teslo appeared first on Reason.com.