Design Yourself Out of the Business with Michael E. Gerber

May 14, 2025

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What if the most powerful move you could make as a founder is to stop being the one doing it all?

Today’s episode explores the mindset shift that turns your business from a job into a scalable, valuable system. Bill is joined by legendary entrepreneur and author Michael E. Gerber to discuss why strategically working on the business, not in it, is the single most important shift a founder can make. From designing scripts to building systems that run without you, Michael shares what it truly means to scale with intention.

Michael E. Gerber is the author of the best-selling E-Myth Revisited and with over 28 other books, Michael has spent decades helping entrepreneurs turn chaos into structure and systems. His latest creation is The Dreaming Room, an immersive experience designed to help business owners redefine their business vision and create a roadmap for success.

Topics explored in this episode:

(02:45) The Origin of the E-Myth

*How a chance encounter led Michael to uncover the hidden flaw in small businesses.

(08:05) Systems Are the Brand

*Why the DNA of a brand lives in its systems and not in its logo or marketing.

(11:45) From Script to Soul

*How do you express the same message over and over with intention and passion?

(14:15) Why McDonald’s Gets It

*What entrepreneurs can learn from Founder Ray Kroc about scaling through consistency.

(18:20) Sarah’s Pie Shop and the Power of Working On It

*An impactful story about a small business owner’s transformation from technician to entrepreneur.

(27:40) The Dreaming Room and the Eightfold Path

*The dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader, the designer, the builder, the launcher, and the grower.

(31:25) The Business Is the Product

*Don’t let the business become your boss.

*You have to create something of value in your business, or else you will go out of business.

*Most Small businesses are doing the wrong type of work.

(40:45) From NuCo to Scale

*Why scaling means letting go of “OldCo” and creating something that lives beyond you.

Thanks to Michael E. Gerber for being on the show!

Learn more about The Dreaming Room: https://www.michaelegerbercompanies.com

Contact Michael directly: michael@michaelegerbercompanies.com

Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelegerber

Bill Gallagher, Scaling Coach and host of the Scaling Up Business podcast, is an international business coach who works with C-Suite leaders to achieve breakthrough growth.

Join Bill in the Growth Navigator Coaching Program: https://ScalingCoach.com/workshop

Bill on LinkedIn: https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/BillGall

Bill on YouTube: https://www.YouTube.com/@BillGallagherScalingCoach

Visit https://ScalingUp.com to learn more about Verne Harnish, our team of Scaling Up Coaches, and the Scaling Up Performance Platform, which includes coaching, learning, software, and summit. We share how the fastest-growing companies succeed where so many others fail. We help leadership teams with the biggest decisions around people, strategy, execution, and cash so that they can scale up successfully and beat the odds of business growth.

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