Humans On The Loop
👁️🔄📀 214 - J.F. Martel, Phil Ford, & Megan Phipps on Weird Cybernetics: Waking Up From The Ecstasy
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Cybernetics challenges the notion of individual autonomy and emphasizes collective existence.
- Cybernetics serves as a border town, allowing individuals from diverse backgrounds to find common ground.
- The increasing reliance on technology raises ethical questions and requires a balance between autonomy and dependence.
Deep dives
Cybernetics and the Loss of Self
Cybernetics involves the automation of judgment, where the governor becomes a component of the system. This automation raises questions about the self and the control it has over decision-making. The self is being removed, leading to a collective existence. While this can be seen as both dystopian and utopian, it signifies a shift from individual autonomy to a relational ontology. The danger lies in the loss of selfhood and the potential loss of control.
Cybernetics as a Border Town
Cybernetics serves as a meeting place for individuals from various disciplines such as the military, CIA, counterculture, and academia. It serves as a border town where people with different backgrounds can find common ground. The history of cybernetics reflects the convergence of diverse fields and the interconnectedness between them. This uniqueness makes it a language of its own, allowing for conversations between individuals with different perspectives and expertise.
Aesthetic Ecstasy and the Ethics of Automation
The automation of perception and the increasing reliance on technology raise ethical questions. The line between the organic and the inorganic becomes blurry as our bodies depend more on external systems. Artists and musicians have explored this interaction, finding beauty and aesthetic ecstasy in cybernetic processes. However, there are dangers in embracing complete automation and relying solely on the technological advancements. Balancing the autonomy of the self and the dependence on cybernetic systems remains a challenge.
Art as a Radar for Social and Psychic Targets
Art serves as a radar environment, providing dynamic and changing corporate image. It enables us to maintain an even course toward permanent goals amidst disruptive innovations.
The Power and Moral Implications of Innovation
Innovation alone cannot solve the problems created by innovation itself. The unchecked pursuit of innovation can lead to a destructive and uncontrollable path, and a religious intervention or metaphysical framework may be required to redirect humanity's trajectory.
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Merry Christmas, Future Fossils! This is Michael Garfield welcoming you to episode 214 of the podcast that explores our place in time — and as demonstrated in the Dr. Who and Aliens franchises, Blade Runner 2049, and Batman Returns, Christmas is a fruitful backdrop for the pondering of big ideas — a moment in which we can see with greater clarity than usual the unity of everyday mundane humanity and transcendental cosmic matters. In other words, perfect timing for this episode’s conversation about cybernetics and the philosophy of the weird with Megan Phipps, Phil Ford, and J.F. Martel.
Lecturer in Media and Information at University of Amsterdam and Phd Research Fellow at Goethe-Universität Frankfurt who writes trippy and insightful papers on topics like Brian Eno, circuit bending, and surveillance capitalism. Phil is an author and musician who teaches musicology at IU Bloomington and infuses his curricula with the profundity he has polished through years of committed Zen practice. J.F. is an author, film-maker, and para-academic online course instructor in media studies and magick, who runs Dungeon and Dragons campaigns on the side. Together, J.F. and Phil host the delicious Weird Studies Podcast, every episode of which triggers in me the Holy Grail of podcast affective listener programming: namely, that I wish I were in the room and part of these discussions. Luckily, I’ve had that opportunity before, to talk about my writing on the material agency of glass in our scientific era…and both of them have been on Future Fossils also, both alone and together. But getting all four of us on one call is a rare and precious thing — and now’s the perfect moment to rap about the emergence of the cybernetic era as a kind of numinous event in human history, a divine invasion that transfigures us and forces us to think about which boundaries *should* melt away and which should stay where evolution learned to put them.
You see, we live in an age of multilayer networks — and when our view of humankind transmogrifies from the static image of divine forms to a fluid wash of interweaving processes, the self becomes a metamorphic fugitive and a work of art. When everything’s connected, politics is an aesthetic act and art acquires moral force. Advanced technologies have granted us godlike powers to reshape the world in our image…but “life finds a way” and there are always gremlins, aliens, dinosaurs, and elves lurking latent in the tidy systems diagrams. The beauty of progress necessarily conceals the ugly externalities, the entropy exported in our efforts to arrange wild nature into an image of our lost garden.
So what does cybernetics as a way of seeing change for us in terms of how we live? What does it mean to be human in an age of very lively, seemingly intelligent machines?
But before we dive headlong into this recording of a conversation so good our first attempt was erased by trickster intervention, let me express my thanks to everyone who has helped me and Future Fossils through a year of (what I hope remains) extraordinary challenge. This show is weird and obstinate in its refusal of clear definition. I follow my muses where they lead me and leave these discussions and soliloquys as fossils of a process of discovery and creativity…and staying true to this defies the logic of the market, which would have us classify ourselves as tidily as possible so we are pre-chewed for the algorithms that determine whether what we make is ever noticed by those over the horizon of organic peer-to-peer suggestion networks. If you’re listening, chances are a friend told you about this show — I’d be surprised if you just found it randomly, and definitely not because a sponsor amplified it. I started Future Fossils under pressure from my friends but keep it going as a kind of Benedictine prayer. However it might seem, it’s lonely work — but every now and then I find I’ve reached somebody where it counts, that I’ve inspired a major life change or just helped you orient yourselves amidst the wider movements of a transformation that once seemed chaotic and now seems symphonic. That’s why I keep this going. Every single time I check my email to discover someone else finds value in my work and shows appreciation with a Patreon, Substack, or Bandcamp sub, it makes my day and takes a little of the sting away from my ongoing balancing of kids and unemployment. I’d like to make this work sustainable in 2024 but I’m still very far from that…so thank you, each and all, for everything you do to help me run this ultramarathon.
New patrons I would like to thank include Ian Benouis, EGH2128, Lynn Amores, Robert Cummings, Katie Teague, Slow Dancing Fool, and Brian Mapes.
Thank you! And thank you to EVERYONE who chips in every month, or who has left or will ever leave a good review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, or who shares this show with your friends…and a special thanks to Suzy Lanza of Ahara Rasa Ghee for shipping me a sweet little care package with her delicious ghee as a gesture of appreciation for this show — she’s not a sponsor but I do endorse her work and recommend you check out iloveghee.com. Lastly, thanks to Noonautics.org for inviting me to join their advisory board and for their continued support of efforts to explore and map and understand the realms beyond.
And now onto the main course! Let’s start somewhere else: in the “trash stratum” of a dirty manger, in the mess of our kinship and identity with the nonhuman (animal, vegetable, AND mineral). In the revelation of our contiguous, nested, and modular interbeing — we begin our conversation…guided here by visitations from a higher realm in which communication and control are aspects of some secret third thing that transcends duality. The information age is one in which we cannot separate the bomb from the computer from the drug and in this way, in spite of all the grimy cyberpunk and body horror of our media environment, the trillion-eyed panopticon the Web became appears to us like the archangel Gabriel: “Be not afraid,” dear listeners. Enjoy this awesome conversation, and enjoy your holidays!
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✨ Related Weird Studies Episodes:
26 - Living in a Glass Age, with Michael Garfield
42 - On Pauline Oliveros, with Kerry O’Brien
131 - Knocking on the Abyssal Door: Live at the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute
153 - Celestial Machine: On the Temperance Card in the Tarot
157 - Long Live the New Flesh: On David Cronenberg's 'Videodrome'
160 - The Way of All Flesh: On John Carpenter's 'The Thing'
✨ Related Future Fossils Episodes:
18 - JF Martel (Art, Magic, & The Terrifying Zone of Uncanny Awesomeness)
65 - John David Ebert (Hypermodernity & Blade Runner 2049)
71 - JF Martel (On Sequels & Simulacra, Blade Runner 2049 & Stranger Things 2)
117 - Eric Wargo on Time Loops: Precognition, Retrocausation, and the Unconscious
126 - Phil Ford & JF Martel on Weird Studies & Plural Realities
157 - Phil Ford on Taboo: Time and Belief in Exotica
171 - Eric Wargo on Precognitive Dreamwork and The Philosophy of Time Travel
✨ Additional Mentioned & Related Media:
Megan Phipps — “Soundscapes of Possible Minds: Meditation Cybernetics in Brian Eno’s Ambient Music”
Zygmunt Bauman - Liquid Modernity
Mitch Waldrop - The Dream Machine
Michel Houellebecq – The Elementary Particles
Mark Fisher – Flatline Constructs: Gothic Materialism and Cybernetic Theory-Fiction
Ezra Klein interviews Erik Davis — “The Culture Creating A.I. Is Weird. Here’s Why That Matters.”
Richard Brautigan – “All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace”
Megan Phipps interviews Erik Davis — “New Cybernetic Psychedelia”
Brian Eno – “The Studio As A Compositional Tool”
Michael Garfield’s “Reader’s Rig” pedalboard teardown feature at Guitar Moderne
Michael Garfield – “Advertisement is Psychedelic Art is Advertisement”
Phil Ford waxes poetic about Wagner’s Ring Cycle on the Brute Norse Podcast
Dror Poleg on the future of a highly automated economy on Infinite Loops Podcast
Erik Wargo – “The Passion of The Space Jockey”
Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute (DISI)
Sam Arbesman on Coding As Magic and The Magic of Code
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