The David Frum Show Would U.S. Generals Obey Illegal Trump Orders?
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Oct 29, 2025 
In this discussion, Tom Nichols, a civil-military relations expert, analyzes the implications of militarizing American politics under Trump's administration. He talks about how the erosion of legal structures and the purging of Pentagon lawyers pressure military leaders into compliance with dubious orders. The conversation shifts to the risks of using the National Guard for political purposes and the potential chaos in national security decision-making. Nichols argues for the moral responsibility of military officials to resist illegal orders, highlighting a critical moment in U.S. democracy.
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Seize Legal Control First
- Capturing the Justice Department is the first move to turn the military into a personal instrument of power.
- Removing independent lawyers then neuters legal checks that would block illegal orders.
Lawyer Firings Produce Compliance
- Firing top Pentagon lawyers makes lower-level officers hesitant to challenge orders.
- Acting lawyers fear they will be punished for resisting, increasing compliance with dubious commands.
Presumption Of Legality In The Chain
- The military system presumes legality flows down the chain of command.
- That presumption lets harmful orders proceed unless senior leaders halt them.
