Future Learning Design Podcast

Every Young Person Should Learn Complexity Sciences - A Conversation with Dr Roland Kupers

Mar 2, 2025

In this engaging discussion, Dr. Roland Kupers, a global advisor on complexity and resilience, argues for the essential inclusion of complexity sciences in education. He critiques traditional reductionist teaching methods and highlights their limitations in addressing modern challenges. The conversation touches on the importance of equipping young people with the skills to navigate complex societal and environmental issues. Kupers also discusses how societal norms shape behavior, using solar panel adoption as an example, and advocates for innovative educational frameworks to inspire deeper learning.

48:03

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Episode guests

Roland Kupers

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Quick takeaways

Teaching complexity sciences in education allows students to tackle intricate global challenges and foster innovation in a rapidly changing job market.

Recognizing the limits of reductionism is essential for understanding the interconnectedness of societal and environmental systems, promoting a holistic perspective.

Deep dives

The Importance of Complexity in Education

Teaching students about the science of complexity is imperative for their development. Current educational models often rely on a reductionist approach, which limits understanding to oversimplified views of complex phenomena. Dr. Roland Coopers argues for introducing complexity into curricula to prepare students for a world where they will face intricate challenges and opportunities for innovation. By equipping young minds with advanced concepts, they can better contribute to solving future global problems and thrive in a rapidly evolving job market.

Intro

3min

Empowering Youth through Complexity Sciences

3min

Rethinking Complexity in Education and Society

20min

Navigating Passion and Purpose

11min

The Contagion of Social Norms and Political Change

4min

Embracing Complexity in Education

6min

Reductionism - the breaking down of complex phenomena into as many parts as possible to make them fully understandable - is everywhere. To some extent the whole enterprise of modern formal schooling is based on the promise of reductionism, as we break life down into subjects, concepts, facts, etc to be digestible by our young people. It has also enabled unbelievable scientific and technological progress. So who could possibly argue with this? And yet, reductionism has become like the hammer that sees everything as a nail. One of its problems is that is renders everything into a mechanistic functioning of parts and nothing more. Our inability to perceive, understand and value complex and systemic patterns and relationships is maybe something that we need to engage with in our education systems.

Dr. Roland Kupers is an advisor on Complexity, Resilience and Energy Transition, Professor of Practice at Arizona State University, as well as an Associate Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies at the University of Amsterdam. He is a global advisor on mitigating methane emissions from fossil fuels for UNEP’s International Methane Emissions Observatory.

A theoretical physicist by training, Roland spent a decade each at AT&T and at Shell in various senior executive functions, including Group head for Sustainable Development and Vice President Global LNG. He has a long running interest in complexity theory and its impacts.

He has published widely, including in HBR, on Project Syndicate, A Climate Policy Revolution: What the Science of Complexity Reveals about Saving the Planet (Harvard UP 2020) and co-authored Complexity and the Art of Public Policy: Solving Society’s Problems from the Bottom Up (Princeton 2014), The Essence of scenarios (Amsterdam 2014), and Turbulence: A corporate framing of resilience (Amsterdam 2014).

In 2010 Roland was a co-author of a report commissioned by the German Government on a New Growth Path for Europe, applying a complexity lens to climate economics. He has been an advisor to the Environmental Defense Fund, the World Resources Institute and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Roland is a Dutch national; his travels have made him fluent in five languages.

Useful Links:

https://www.rolandkupers.com/

Complexity Module for the IB Diploma: https://www.rolandkupers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/An-IB-complexity-module-for-the-Diploma-Programme-24.10.17.pdf

UNEP’s International Methane Emissions Observatory, 2022 Report: https://www.rolandkupers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/IMEO2022.pdf