Tom Uren, a specialist in cyber forces in Southeast Asia, joins The Grugq, a cybersecurity expert, to dive into the growing investments in cyber capabilities across the region. They discuss Indonesia's significant military shift towards cyber warfare and the contrasting approaches of Thailand and Indonesia. The conversation also highlights innovative training strategies to bolster cybersecurity against looming threats, like those from North Korea, and the bureaucratic hurdles in developing effective cyber forces, drawing lessons from global examples like Ukraine.
Indonesia's establishment of a dedicated cyber force highlights regional competitiveness and responses to increasing cybersecurity threats in Southeast Asia.
There is ongoing debate about whether integrating cyber capabilities within existing military structures is preferable to forming separate cyber forces, given potential bureaucratic challenges.
Deep dives
Indonesia's Cyber Force Establishment
Indonesia's decision to create a dedicated cyber force reflects a strategic response to growing regional cybersecurity threats. With a population of 250 million and a significant military presence, the establishment of such a force aims to enhance national cybersecurity following numerous breaches and disruptions of government services. Experts highlight that regional competitiveness drives nations to bolster their cyber capabilities, as evidenced by Thailand's similar move towards establishing a cyber command. This suggests that Indonesia's initiative is part of a broader trend among Southeast Asian countries to strengthen their cyber defenses by formalizing military structures dedicated to this domain.
The Debate Over Military Structure and Cybersecurity
There is ongoing debate about whether creating a fourth branch of military, specifically for cyber operations, is the best approach for countries like Indonesia. Critics argue that existing military structures should integrate cyber capabilities within their established forces rather than forming a separate entity, which could lead to silos and inefficiencies. The potential for bureaucratic challenges is highlighted, as new forces may struggle to align with traditional military units and could face resistance in implementing necessary changes. Furthermore, training pathways for cyber personnel should be developed to retain talent and combined expertise across military disciplines.
Influence of Global Cyber Trends on Local Strategies
Regional developments and global cyber incidents, such as those seen in Ukraine, have influenced how countries like Indonesia and Thailand view their cyber defense capabilities. There is a perception that modern conflicts demand cyber capabilities as essential tools for national defense, driving nations to invest in these areas. However, there is skepticism regarding whether these countries are fully understanding the complexities of cyber warfare, particularly how cyber tools have been utilized effectively in conflict scenarios. The emphasis appears to be on creating a responsive cyber force that can support military operations rather than developing comprehensive defensive strategies that focus on internal resilience.
In this edition of Between Two Nerds Tom Uren and The Grugq talk about various Southeast Asian countries investing in cyber forces, the drivers behind these decisions and what kind of actions make sense.
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode