Decoder with Nilay Patel

Inside the global battle over chip manufacturing

Jan 31, 2023

Chris Miller, an Associate Professor at Tufts University and author of "Chip War," dives into the intricate world of chip manufacturing, highlighting the geopolitical chess game surrounding semiconductors. He explains how ASML, a Dutch company, is pivotal for global chip production, influencing both the U.S. and China. The conversation touches on high-stakes foreign policy, the evolution of lithography technology, and the competitive landscape where TSMC and Intel vie for dominance. Miller also draws parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine, revealing the broader implications of global supply chains.

53:06

Episode guests

Chris Miller

Highlights

AI Chapters

Episode notes

The History of UV Lithography and the Role of ASML

02:54

TSMC - The Foundry Model That Morris Chang Invents

02:08

Can China Catch Up on Its Own?

02:43

Intro

4min

Geopolitics of Chip Manufacturing

5min

The Semiconductor Ecosystem and Geopolitical Tensions

18min

Navigating the U.S. Chip Manufacturing Landscape

6min

The Future of Semiconductor Manufacturing

7min

The Geopolitical Impact of TSMC

5min

Legacy of a Chip Pioneer

6min

Geopolitical Tensions: Lessons from Ukraine for Taiwan

3min

A few weeks ago, President Biden was in the Netherlands, where he asked the Dutch government to restrict export from a company called ASML to China. ASML is the only company in the world that makes a specific machine needed to make the most advanced chips. Apple couldn’t make iPhone chips without this one machine from the Netherlands’ biggest company. ASML doesn’t just shape the Dutch economy—it shapes the entire world economy. How did that happen?

Chris Miller, Tufts professor and author of Chip War: The Fight For The World’s Most Critical Technology walked me through a lot of this, along with some deep dives into geopolitics and the absolutely fascinating chip manufacturing process. This one has everything: foreign policy, high powered lasers, hotshot executives, monopolies, the fundamental limits of physics, and, of course, Texas. Here we go.

Links:

US issues sweeping restrictions on chip sales to China

Japan and the Netherlands join US with tough chip controls on China

Pat Gelsinger came back to turn Intel around — here’s how it’s going

Transcript:

https://www.theverge.com/e/23342471

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan.

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