Being a boss isn't just about calling the shots, it's a delicate balancing act that requires continuous learning, effective people management, and navigating the complexities of business growth. Anne & Lau unpack the multifaceted nature of being a BOSS - the responsibilities, the challenges, the triumphs, and everything in between. Listen in as they share their personal experiences and insights on managing people, mastering outsourcing, and balancing the dynamics of a growing business. You'll learn the significance of industry education, the art of hiring the right people, and the need for continuous learning and adaptability. Plus, they delve into the essential elements of establishing strong relationships with clients and colleagues. This is a conversation you won't want to miss, so tune in and let's learn how to truly embrace being a BOSS… Transcript It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only, most beautiful, lovely Lau Lapides. Lau: Oh, thank you. Miss Anne. Love you right back. Yay. Anne: Ohh. You know, Lau. I had such a week. Oh my gosh. It is so tough to be a BOSS. I'm just saying. Lau: Ugh. It is. It is. You have to give that a little accent, because that was such a week. Was it a week? It was a week. It was a week. It was a week, a week from Weekland. Anne: I Had such a week. Lau: Such a week. Anne: Trying to, being a BOSS. Lau: Oy, tell me about your week. Tell me about it. Anne: The VO BOSS. Okay, so that was my poor rendition of (laughs) VO BOSS. So being a VO BOSS, you know what? There's so many different types of BOSSes. So I thought it would be a good thing to talk about today, all the different hats that we wear being BOSSes and all the, as you mentioned before, the plates that need to be kept spinning in the air. And those of you who are maybe just getting into this, or if you're into this, realize that you're not alone. We're all spinning plates, and it's one big, crazy, wonderful world of being a BOSS. All these things that I never anticipated having to do when I initially thought, oh, I'm gonna go into voiceover. Lau: Oh, totally. You know? Oh, you don't know anything. I mean, that's the beauty of it, is like if you knew everything, you wouldn't go into it. So it's better. Anne: Probably. Lau: Ignorance is bliss, right? In a way. Anne: Probably. Lau: But do you ever literally have vertigo? Like sometimes I literally, at night, I'll sit down, and the room is spinning, and I'm like, why is the room spinning? It's like so many things are entering -- Anne: Could’ve been those drinks you had, Lau. I'm just kidding. (laughs). Lau: It could be like, listen, I should drink -- Anne: Vodka, you. No (laughs). Lau: I should drink. I would be able to see straight. But it's just like so many layers of stuff happening in your mind that literally you get dizzy from it. I get dizzy from it. Anne: It's funny because I said to -- as I was having a meeting with my assistants the other day -- I said, God, it's hard to be a BOSS. Like, I thought, oh, it's gonna be wonderful going into business for myself, and, and it is. Trust me, I would have it no other way. I've decided that I could never, ever work for someone again outside of an a guest position, like a guest director, that kind of thing. But I just can't work for someone again. But being a BOSS, there's so many responsibilities that you have to take on that you may have never even thought of. And they're scary. Right? Because did I have any experience setting up an S-corp? Did I have any experience hiring employees or firing employees? Things that you just didn't -- in the beginning, did I have any experience negotiating outside of being in the store with my — by the way, my father, my father, every place he went, he tried to bargain. He tried to bargain the deal. He would go into Sears. Okay, Sears is not around much anymore, but I think Sears is online. Lau: (laughs). I love Sears. Anne: But he would go into Sears, like just the retail store, and he'd just, anything he bought, he'd try to, he tried to bargain them down. I mean, it was hysterical. It used to drive my mother crazy, but all the negotiation, I had no idea. Right? No idea how to negotiate, no idea how to set up accounting for my business. Lau: Yeah. They're hardcore skill sets that we're not, I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, if you're in undergrad, if you're in graduate school, if you go to a conservatory, if you're going to a training studio, they all kind of fall under a similar umbrella in that they're not offering a lot of business training. And so you're really kind of thrown out as a actor in the world thrown out to figure out, how do I do this? Whether I'm a working talent or whether I own a company, how do I figure out all the components that have to make that company really successful? And the truth is, a lot of us end up taking years and years piecing it together, like our own apprentice, and getting people to train with and train under, to figure out what I need to not just survive, but also thrive in the business and get to the level at which we're getting to. Anne: Absolutely. And even if you outsource, right? Let's just say you're a creative. I know a lot of creatives that come into it. They're like, okay, so this is great, I got my demo, (laughs). Then they're like, why am I not getting any work? Well, because you need to proceed on with the business, right? We need to do marketing, we need to do outreach. We need to reach out to potential clients and get the work. And then once we get the work, we have to figure out how to negotiate a fair price. Or if we're working with an agent, we have to get that agent. How are we going to bill them? And then once we bill them, how are we gonna make sure that they pay us? And then when they pay us, we gonna make sure we're taking out enough taxes for the end of the year, right, so that we can pay our taxes at the end of the year? So, so many different pieces and components. And I think for me, as a voice talent first starting out, before I really branched off and started coaching and started VO Peeps and VO bus, I had to survive and get through all of that, which I believe most everybody has to kind of experience on their own. Even if you outsource for things, right, for editing, for accounting, you have to understand the business in order to know how to manage the people that you are hiring to help you with the business. Right? Because otherwise, you're kind of just sitting there in the dark and people could take advantage of you, or you're just not gonna understand how your business works or the things that need to get done. So I think first and foremost, being a BOSS requires education, education, education. Oh my gosh, from the start. Lau: Yes. You have said the magic words, and you have to give yourself enough expertise to understand how to find experts, if that makes any sense. And I, I oftentimes would get frustrated saying, but wait, do I have to be a graphic designer in order to design for a designer for my website? And to some degree, yes, you do. To some degree, yes, you do. You can't run on an assumption that if I have enough money to invest, and I hire this person or this team, that they actually know what they're doing. You cannot assume that, do not assume it. And I will say, not to be a negative Nelly, but just to be a realist in the moment, most of the time they don't. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And so it doesn't mean to be overly critical, it just means to have the education behind you to say, well, I sat in on some courses, I took some seminars. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I did some homework in the industry, and I have a sense of what a marketing person does. I have an idea of what a designer would do for a website. I have these ideas that I can be a partner, not a subordinate in my own business, but a partner in crime to really make that vision happen. Don't sit back and be passive and say, well, I'm hiring an accountant, and they should know you'll do it. Anne: Exactly. Lau: You have to know what an expense is. You have to know what a write-off is. You have to know, as you said, how to save for your quarterly taxes. Otherwise, you're gonna get stuck at the end saying, wow, I'm the loser in this because I didn't do the homework in understanding what my due diligence is in this process, I just completely put it in the whole basket of that professional who, sometimes they're great, but they still are not gonna know everything and about our industry. Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. And honestly, I will say that for myself, being the tech girl that I am, being, the fact that years ago I taught, let's just, here's an example, marketing, ads, Google Ads, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, they've changed. Right? And so when I recently -- well, not recently, it was about a year ago or two years ago, I went to go hire someone to do Google Ads for me. Oh my goodness. So I didn't have a concept of what Google Ads needed at the time. Right? So how was I able to hire a qualified person to create ads for me, manage ads for me, and run them for me, and then charge me. Right? And I will say, I am the first person to say that I did not educate myself enough. I found someone who, sworn up and down, good references, good resource, that was supposed to be a wonderful person that could handle my Google Ads for me. And they did not work out at all for me. I got no return on my investment, and I lost money. And so that alone, right, that risk that you're taking when you're hiring somebody or outsourcing somebody to help you run your business, that first of all takes courage. And that's a scary thing. And so educating yourself about what you need and the general outline -- like, if I need an accountant, what is that accountant gonna have to do for me? They're gonna have to balance my monthly checkbook. They're gonna have to import data from my banking accounts. We're gonna have to categorize that. So understand that you need to do these things, and then you're gonna have to manage the person that's working for you. And remember, and this is probably one of the toughest things I have, multiple assistants. Assistants are human, right? Human people have bad days. Right? And if there's a bad day, or more than a bad day, or it turns out to be something where it's not helping you in your business, you're going to have to address that. And that's not necessarily a technical thing that you have to know or learn about, but that is people management. And oh my goodness, Lau. I don't know. Can you take a class on people management (laughs)? Lau: Well, you know, they have whole degrees on management. They certainly have whole graduate degrees. But I'm here to tell you, and not to say that those are not worth taking part in, they could be. Anne: Yeah. Lau: But I'm here to tell you, I am from the school of Old Knocks, and the School of Living Life from -- Anne: Hard knocks. Lau: Hard knocks. And nothing you learn in school, number one, in a year or two will be obsolete, a lot of it. But number two can match what happens, the class, versus the real life. Nothing can match the nuances and complexities and sophistication and complication of dealing with people every day. And anyone who's in any kind of business will agree with that one. It is amazing, the skillsets that you need to accrue. Anne: Oh goodness, yes. Lau: The more diversity, the more skillsets, (laughs). Anne: And you know, we always encourage outsourcing, right? To be a BOSS, go ahead. Outsource those things that don't bring you joy. Outsource those things that allow you to market yourself more. If you love being in the booth and you want more jobs in the booth, hire someone to help you market. But make sure that you know enough about that marketing and enough about managing that person so that they can truly help you grow. And so that when you do get more work, right, you're gonna be able to complete that as intended. And if it doesn't work out, I think one of the hardest things for me has been firing somebody. That's a tough thing. That might be the toughest thing I've had to do, is fire people. And that is, whew. I'll tell you, that mentally is draining.(laughs). You know, not so much like if somebody's not performing as you feel, I think letting them go. And then I think the decent thing to do is to connect up with them and talk to them as you're letting them go. I don't wanna just ghost people or do it via a text or an email. Dealing with that is very, very tough. So BOSSes, if you are outsourcing, make sure you know enough about the topic or whatever it is that you're outsourcing so that you can manage the person. And if that person doesn't work out, make sure that you have the courage and you will develop people skills probably. It doesn't make it easier, I don't think. I always hate letting somebody go. It's not a pleasant thing to do. Lau: No, it's a hard one. It's a really hard one, especially if you're a people pleaser and you love to get along with people. It's a very difficult one. And another one is, and this is old school management versus a lot of new school theory, in that management does not mean everything is hands off and laissez-faire where you can walk away and take lunch all day and everyone will do everything for you. It is always, in my mind, a hands on skillset and craft that you need to be unafraid and assertive about your team being on top of what's going on, having them know that you know what's going on, the psychology that is important. But walking a fine line between over controlling and being -- Anne: Yeah. Micromanaging. Lau: — called founder syndrome, that's the founder of the company not willing to budge and let go of old ways and old philosophies. How we balance that as managers of saying, well, yes, I started, I've grown. I have a philosophy and a model in this direction, but I wanna learn, I wanna pivot, I wanna grow. And knowing the difference -- here's one of the best ones I can give to your, to the audience. One of the best ones is know the difference between the people that are static — in other words, they were great at a certain timeframe — and others that are your growth people. They're the people that are gonna help you grow to the next place. Not everyone is that. And when we have an unrealistic expectation and get upset that this person is not moving with us, they're not shaping us, they're not shape shifting, they're not leading us, well, they're not meant to. They're not great at that. That's not why they're there. This other person you're bringing in, because they're great at that. That's what they do. They're there to take you to the next level. And know the difference between the two. Anne: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a give and a take. Right? I mean, just because you are the boss doesn't mean that you are the be all, all knowing. And so I, I really find that there's such a delicate balance between happy people, happy employees, business grows. I really believe in keeping employees happy. And to do that, you have to pay them fairly. That's number one. And again, that's another mind twist for BOSSes who are starting out thinking, well, gosh, I don't have the money. A lot of what I hear on a daily basis is, I don't have the finances. I don't have the finances to invest. But yet still, if you don't have the finances to invest, I don't believe in your growth, in your company's growth, you're not gonna grow. And what are we here for? I mean, (laughs). I just feel like there's got to be a reason that you want to grow in your career and grow your business. And so there has to be that mental education that you have for yourself that allows you to make that investment, but also trust in the people. Like hire people that can help you grow. I love the static and the growth people, and also, a back and forth listening to those people, because I don't know everything. Right? I hire people that make me look better. Right? Hire people that make you look good, and you can help them look good as well. I think it's a give and a take. And I think it's always like, if you hire people who are even better than you, I think that's really something to aspire to. I wanna hire somebody, obviously I wanna hire somebody that's better at me in accounting, because that's why I need accounting help. Right? I want somebody who's the expert, who's the best in that. And I wanna encourage them to want to work for me or work with me to help grow my company. So how am I incentivizing? Lau: And you know, just realize that as you manage people, people, whether they're a contractor and they're coming and going, doing a one-off job for you, or if they're an employee and they're there on a consistent basis, I always run by the philosophy of, I wanna build them up. I wanna grow them and spring them up. Versus rip them down and tear them down. And I'll tell you, I oftentimes say this from some folks that I have worked with in the past, and I think to myself, quietly I think, if they had money and they had power, they would be super dangerous. Because they don't know how to manage people, and they would become tyrannical. And it's very easy to slide into a zone where I'm powerful, I'm omnipotent, I have money, I'm successful, I'm this, I'm that. Now the ego can't get through the door. The ego is larger than life. No one can tell me I'm wrong. No one can show me anything else. Anne: Right. Lau: A lot of dictators, we see this in the acting world, especially in academia, a lot of theater professors and people who are tenured, who can't be touched over years and years and years can become very, very tyrannical in nature and just rip to shreds those actors. And so I always had a concerted effort in the front of my mind, not that I have a nature for that, but don't ever go down that path. Always stay humble, stay kind, stay open to education, and just know that I don't know everything. There's so much you don't know. You're always learning -- Anne: Absolutely. Lau: — learning and learning. But keep your awareness up. If someone is trying to take advantage of you or someone is treating you a certain way that's uncomfortable or inappropriate, put your foot down. Be articulate. Let them know that. Like, don't let them walk all over you. And so it's a very fine line to stay right in the middle, right in that diplomatic middle place. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Where you're strong and you have an anchor and you have a state of mind, but you are open, you're kind, you're pivoting and you're learning and just sort of moving back and forth. Anne: I think some of the most powerful people in business, and of course I've had, outside of the VO industry, I've had experiences obviously before I came into the voiceover industry. But I also try to make a point to really get outside my bubble and experience -- especially with my clients, right? I want to go into their world. I think some of the smartest and most powerful people that I have met have been ones who don't act like they know it all and actively say, I don't know it all. Or I wish I could answer that right now. What I think is this. And I truly believe those are the people that I'm like, wow. Like, wow. You just don't see that. I have such respect. He's a BOSS. Or she's a BOSS. And really, I feel that that has to be part of the mindset that, BOSSes out there, we need to stay humble, stay open to education, and educating yourself at all times. Like we are lifelong learners. It's not easy. Right? I mean, I, gosh, I wish a lot of times you might look into the industry and people just make it look so easy. They're just getting all the jobs. They're just powerhouses in the industry. But I guarantee if you sit down with every one of them, they can tell you their story. And their story has not been all roses. I mean, it's not easy being a good BOSS. It, it just isn't. There's a lot of trials, tribulations, failures, missteps. I think if you really look at it in a positive light, you always learn from your mistakes. I mean, I don't mind making mistakes. I mean, I don't wanna make big costly mistakes. I try to avoid those. But it happens. I mean, like I said, I made a bad investment in trying to hire someone that was gonna do some ads for me. And it wasn't just that, I mean, it's been multiple, multiple things that have happened that I'm like, well, okay, I've learned now. Now I know. I don't want that. Or now I learned and I know better. Lau: That's what I call learning money. (laughs). Anne: Yeah. Learning money. Lau: Learning money. But you don't wanna keep learning that lesson over and over and over again. Anne: Exactly. Lau: Just learn it and then move on and say, hey, I learned that. And I'll never forget that. Yeah. Because that was not the right move for us, but that's okay. That's all right. It happens. Anne: I try telling people all the time, it's such a thing on the forums in, you know, Facebook groups, oh, I got a demo, and oh, I shouldn't have gotten that demo. And then people come, they'll come to me and they'll say, can you listen to my demo? And I shouldn't have gotten it. And oh God, it was a mistake and it was bad. But honestly, I just tell people like, you cannot beat yourself up over something. It's a learning mistake. Right? I mean, everybody starts somewhere. Right? Lau: Yeah, I was just thinking of that. Anne: And so, if you beat yourself up about, yes, it could have been a costly investment, but think of it as a learning investment. And now you know exactly what not to do. And so I always try to make people not feel bad about what they consider to be mistakes. because it, they bring with them all sorts of luggage, which it doesn't always serve them well in trying to build their businesses. Right? When you've got that luggage and that baggage and that bitterness. I mean, just move on, learn, move on. And yeah, it was a costly mistake. And it happens. It just does. And it happens to the best of us, guys. It does. It happens to BOSSes that have been doing this for years, like myself and Lau, I'm sure. Lau: Oh my goodness. Every year, every year you're learning and you're growing, and you're doing things that are amazing and you're doing other things that you look back and you say, why did I do that? Or I don't think I'm gonna do that again. Anne: Well, that didn't work, (laughs). Lau: What was I thinking? You know? Wasn't time well spent. But you know what? I think the older and wiser you get, the more you realize I need to be able to take something away from every single experience that I'm doing. Because that's really the learning curve. Sometimes your biggest mistakes are your biggest learning curves. And sometimes you meet people within that mistake that become immense, immense partners in action for you and your lifetime. So always look for the silver lining of that cloud. Don't walk away and beat yourself up and waste energy and waste time and whatever. Say, listen, I got opportunity costs, I got learning money, (laughs) that I'm spending. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: But you know, I had a thought in my head, and this was like from 20 minutes ago, but I just wanted to say that some of the simplest things that can be blown out of proportion, if not done well, and doing the due diligence to do them well is so important. Like even budgeting, like even budgeting, understanding the difference between like what a fixed cost is versus what your variable costs are. if you don't know that from the beginning and you don't work on that, my goodness, the money is gonna go right through your hands like water. You won't even know what happened to it. You won't know how you spent it. You won't know how you got it. You won't know what to do with it. So your relationship to money is a very powerful and intimate and trusting relationship that you have to really respect and pay attention to, because it symbolizes so many important things for you in your life and in your business. So you have to really do that and not put it off for some day, someday. Do it early. Get yourself in really important patterns. Anne: I think ultimately we create businesses to have a business and create a profit. Right? We wanna be able to create a profit so that we can I mean, ultimately, if this is your full-time gig, right? I wanna be able to pay the mortgage, and so with my business, I need to make a profit. And so, yes, relationship with money is huge. And I think we had a podcast episode on it not so long ago, or we've spoken about it before. Your relationship with money is critical. It's imperative that you address it and that you face it. Because you have to know at what point, are you making a profit? Are you not making a profit? What are you putting your money into? And that's not to say that you shouldn't put your money into things, right? And that you should be clenching your fists and not wanting to invest in yourself or in your business, but knowing where that money is going. And then are you making a profit? Or at what point are you making a profit? Now, profit can mean something other than monetary profit, especially when we're talking about just getting into the business. The first couple of years I was in the business, I expected to take a loss. And of course I reported a loss on my taxes, right? Because you're investing money, or investing money in your training and your equipment, in your demos, you're spending money on, at least I was spending money on pay-to-plays and auditioning and trying to build up that business, build up that clientele. And so as a business entity, I lost money the first couple of years. And of course, ultimately that shouldn't be your goal forever. But I mean, that's very typical I think for any small business just starting out, you're gonna invest more than you're gonna get back. And so for those people, I love it, I always ask my new students to set goals. Some of the goals are like, I want a national spot in six months, or I wanna be able to make, you know, $100,000 this year, or whatever that is. And I like the fact that there's goals, but I want, I want your goals as BOSSes to also, if you educate yourself enough to figure out what are realistic goals for you in your business, and how much are you going to have to invest, and how much could you realistically get? I mean, of course there's always monetary goals, that I'd like to hit that six figure number this year. I think those are great. But I also think that you have to have the relationship with your money, first and foremost, to know where that money is going, in and out in profit and not profit, to really help you get an idea as to how to continue or to move forward and progress. Lau: Have a real action plan in place, right, Anne? I mean, don't just fly by the city of your pants. It's okay to have those impulsive moves at times and have the improv spirit, but you have to have a plan of action in place. I would like to see you have it in place every quarter and readjust it, readjust it, readjust it, reinvent it, reenvision it. It should not stay the same year after year, quarter after quarter. You should have new ideas, new ideas. And it's okay if your business is capped. You don't have to go through the ceiling. Not everyone has to go through the ceiling. Some people say, I wanna grow to this level. I'm happy with this level. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I know if I get above it, it's gonna be too stressful for me. Or I don't have enough of -- Anne: There's gonna be more work involved. Exactly. Lau: — to help with that. And just know that, like go after your big dream, but be realistic about that big dream. I also wanted to say too, be careful of scams. It is a massive scam market now out there, just in the larger world, in the larger sphere. So as you're spending your money and investing in services and delegating and hiring people and growing your team, do your reference checks, do your research. Ask folks in the industry, do you know this one? Do you know this one? Do you know this one? Because you don't wanna make a mistake where you give a bunch of money to a scam outfit. That happens all the time. Every moment of the day, that's happening. And they're getting very crafty about looking like a real company. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: So just buyer, beware, consumer, beware. Do the due diligence. And I guarantee you two or three people in the industry that you work with and trust are gonna know whether they are legitimate and real or not. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. BOSSes, educate. I think it all starts with education, all starts with education. And I mean, hopefully our discussion on being a BOSS and things that we've had to encounter ourselves has helped you to know that you're not alone if you're experiencing difficulty or you have questions or you don't know the answers, because a lot of times we don't either. And so that's why we have support groups out there. We have mentors, we have coaches that we trust and believe in. And the BOSSes, we're always here for you if you need us. And so always great conversation, Lau. Lau: Great conversation. You know what I love the most about being a BOSS? I love developing relationships. Relationships that sometimes can last a whole lifetime. And that to me is one of the biggest payoffs of running a business, is getting to have amazing clients, amazing talent, and amazing colleagues and friends like you, Anne that just make my life happy. Anne: And cohosts like you, Lau. Lau: Yay! Anne: There you go. Lau: Yay. Anne: I love it. Love you, guys. Lau: Love that. Love it. Anne: Fantastic. Okay guys. So as individuals, I want to let you know that it can seem difficult not only to be a BOSS, but to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Lau: Next time! Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.