In this bonus for CAFE Insiders, Elie Honig and Safeena Mecklai take listeners behind the scenes of the fifth episode of Up Against the Mob. They discuss why ruthless mobsters are sometimes seen as empathetic figures, the extent to which the wives of mafia figures are culpable for their husbands’ crimes, and what poker can teach us about the criminal mind.

Thank you for being a member of the CAFE Insider community.

Up Against the Mob is produced by CAFE Studios and the Vox Media Podcast Network. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Senior Editorial Producer: Adam Waller; Technical Director: David Tatasciore; Audio Producers: Matthew Billy; Composer: Nat Weiner; Editorial Producers: Noa Azulai, David Kurlander, Sam Ozer-Staton, Jake Kaplan.

Episode 1040 - Assess, don't guess