Rather than coming out of the pandemic with a new toolkit of public health measures or even personal habits, the response to this summer’s long wave of COVID infections has mostly been to continue with business as usual. But business as usual seems inadequate with mpox and bird flu crises on the horizon.

Guest: Apoorva Mandavilli, science and global health reporter at the New York Times.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther.

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What Next: The Pandemic Lessons We’ve Forgotten