48. Simon Sebag Montefiore: The impact of conflicting histories in the Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine wars
Nov 27, 2023
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Historian Simon Sebag Montefiore discusses the history of Israel, motivations behind Lord Balfour's declaration, conflicting histories in Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine wars, and their impact. He also shares personal stories of his family background and interviewing Margaret Thatcher.
Recognizing the authentic histories and connections of both peoples to the land is crucial for peace in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Understanding the historical context and motivations behind decisions is important, but focusing on the present reality of how people want to live together is essential in resolving conflicts.
Deep dives
The Historical Background of Israel-Palestine Conflict
The podcast explores the historical background of the Israel-Palestine conflict, highlighting the long-standing longing of the Jewish people to return to their historic homeland in the Holy Land. It discusses the growth of the Jewish population in Palestine in the 19th century and the simultaneous growth of the Palestinian Arab population. The episode emphasizes the importance of recognizing the authentic histories and connections of both peoples to the land and the need to find a way for them to live together in peace. It also touches upon the challenges of settlements and the push for a two-state solution.
The Role of British Empire in the Creation of Israel
The podcast delves into the role of the British Empire in the creation of Israel, starting with negotiations with Hussein of Mecca during World War I. It highlights the Balfour Declaration, which expressed support for a Jewish homeland, and explores the historical context and motivations behind the British Empire's decision. The episode discusses the cultural and political factors that influenced the British, including biblical education, the belief in Jewish influence in America and Russia, and the desire to secure allies during the war. It also emphasizes the need to understand history while focusing on the present reality of how people want to live together.
The Challenges of Reaching a Two-State Solution
The podcast addresses the challenges of reaching a two-state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, emphasizing the need for partners on both sides who are capable of working towards peace. It discusses the importance of Hamas being excluded from the political game and the need for a different Israeli leadership. The episode highlights the complexities of settlements and the potential need to relocate Jewish settlers to create a substantial Palestinian state. It acknowledges the difficulties in achieving such a solution but underscores the necessity for mutual recognition and the right of both peoples to live and flourish in freedom.
Resonances with the Russia-Ukraine Conflict
The podcast draws parallels between the Israel-Palestine conflict and the Russia-Ukraine conflict, highlighting the presence of two historical narratives and the complexity of the historical relationship between Russia and Ukraine. It discusses the Russian narrative of Ukraine as a sub-Russian culture and the Ukrainian view of a separate national identity. The episode explores how historical narratives play a role in current events and the challenges of finding a resolution. It acknowledges the potential for a Ukrainian victory leading to change and the possibility of a stalemate resulting in a pro-Western EU member Ukraine.
Is understanding history a means to peace between Israel and Palestine? Has Putin’s obsession with Russia’s imperial history motivated his invasion of Ukraine? Is it possible to dismantle Hamas under Netanyahu’s leadership?
Rory and Alastair are joined by British historian Simon Sebag Montefiore to answer these questions and more in today's episode of Leading.
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