The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Being human in the age of AI

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May 8, 2023

Guest

Meghan O'Gieblyn

In this thought-provoking discussion, essayist Meghan O'Gieblyn, author of "God, Human, Animal, Machine," explores how technology reshapes our understanding of humanity. She dives into the impact of metaphors on self-perception and the blurring lines between humans and machines. O'Gieblyn reflects on her journey from faith to agnosticism and the complex interplay between AI, identity, and creativity. The conversation also examines our emotional connections with AI and the potential threats to what makes us distinctly human in an increasingly mechanized world.

53:10

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ANECDOTE

O'Gieblyn's Religious Upbringing

Meghan O'Gieblyn grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family, homeschooled, and immersed in church life.
She attended Moody Bible Institute, intending to become a missionary, where she began questioning her faith.

insights

INSIGHT

Deconstructing Faith

Leaving deeply held beliefs was a gradual process for O'Gieblyn, sparked by questions about hell and divine justice.
The lack of satisfactory answers from professors contributed to her eventual shift away from faith.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Discovering Transhumanism

O'Gieblyn's interest in the intersection of technology and religion began with reading Ray Kurzweil's The Age of Spiritual Machines.
Kurzweil's transhumanist ideas of merging with technology resonated with O'Gieblyn's prior beliefs in religious transcendence.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

From Faith to Agnosticism: A Journey of Doubt and Discovery

02:51 • 9min

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Exploring Disenchantment in a Modern Context

11:32 • 3min

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The Human-Machine Convergence

14:22 • 7min

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The Complexity of Human Self-Perception in an AI Era

21:09 • 5min

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AI, Identity, and the Nature of Creativity

26:03 • 10min

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Navigating Mental Health and Shifting Views on Transhumanism

35:57 • 2min

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Human Values in the Age of AI

38:21 • 15min

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#23724

The Sociology of Religion

Max Weber

In 'Sociology of Religion', Max Weber examines the effects of religious action and inaction, categorizing different religions to understand their subjective meaning. He views religion as a means for individuals to pursue their goals, often facilitating the rise of modern capitalism. Weber's work emphasizes understanding religion as a response to human needs for theodicy and soteriology.

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The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind

Julian Jaynes

Julian Jaynes's "The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" is a controversial but influential work that proposes a revolutionary theory about the evolution of human consciousness. Jaynes argues that consciousness as we know it emerged relatively recently in human history, and that earlier humans experienced the world differently, receiving instructions and guidance from internal voices they attributed to gods. This "bicameral mind," Jaynes suggests, was a state of consciousness where the left and right hemispheres of the brain functioned more independently. The book draws on evidence from ancient literature and mythology to support its claims, sparking considerable debate among scholars. While its central thesis remains highly contested, the book's imaginative approach to understanding consciousness continues to inspire discussion and further research.

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The Brothers Karamazov

Larissa Volokhonsky

Fyodor Dostoevsky

Richard Pevear

Set in 19th-century Russia, 'The Brothers Karamazov' is a novel that delves into the lives of the Karamazov family, focusing on the three brothers—Dmitri, Ivan, and Alyosha—and their complex relationships with their father, Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov. The novel is a murder mystery, a courtroom drama, and an exploration of erotic rivalry, faith, doubt, and reason. It examines the human psyche, moral dilemmas, and the search for meaning in a world fraught with suffering and uncertainty. The story revolves around the murder of Fyodor Pavlovich and the subsequent trial of Dmitri, accused of the crime, while exploring deeper themes of Russian life, social and spiritual striving, and the clash between faith and reason.

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The Age of Spiritual Machines

When Computers Exceed Human Intelligence

Ray Kurzweil

In 'The Age of Spiritual Machines,' Ray Kurzweil presents a prophetic blueprint for the future where the capabilities of computers and humans become increasingly intertwined. The book explores the exponential growth of technology, particularly in artificial intelligence, and predicts a future where computers will exceed human intelligence. Kurzweil discusses the blurring of lines between human and machine, the emergence of new forms of intelligence, and the potential for humans to migrate their consciousness into machines. The book is a thought-provoking analysis of human and artificial intelligence and their evolving relationship in the 21st century.

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God, Human, Animal, Machine

Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning

Meghan O'Gieblyn

In this book, Meghan O'Gieblyn delves into the complex relationships between technology, human consciousness, and the search for meaning. She examines how the rise of science and technology has transformed our understanding of the world, from the materialism introduced by Descartes to the modern digital age. O'Gieblyn draws on her personal experiences as a former fundamentalist Christian and her studies in philosophy to navigate topics such as artificial intelligence, the hard problem of consciousness, and the blending of scientific and religious thought. The book is a hybrid of history, criticism, philosophy, and memoir, offering a nuanced and thought-provoking exploration of what it means to be human in the face of technological advancements.

Will AI change what it means to be human? Sean Illing talks with essayist Meghan O'Gieblyn, author of God, Human, Animal, Machine, a book about how the way we understand human nature has been interwoven with how we understand our own technology. They discuss the power of metaphor in describing fundamental aspects of being human, the "transhumanism" movement, and what we're after when we seek companionship in a chatbot.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Meghan O'Gieblyn, essayist; author

References:

God, Human, Animal, Machine: Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning by Meghan O'Gieblyn (Anchor; 2021)
The Age of Spiritual Machines by Ray Kurzweil (Penguin; 1999)
The Sociology of Religion by Max Weber (1920)
"Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness" by David Chalmers (1995)
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes (1976)
"Routine Maintenance" by Meghan O'Gieblyn (Harper's; Jan. 2022)
"Babel" by Meghan O'Gieblyn (n+1; Summer 2021)
The Society of Mind by Marvin Minsky (Simon & Schuster; 1986)
Job (Old Testament), 38:1 – 42:6
"The Google engineer who thinks the company's AI has come to life" by Nitasha Tiku (Washington Post; June 11, 2022)
The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky (1880)
"Will AI Achieve Consciousness? Wrong Question" by Daniel Dennett (WIRED; Feb. 19, 2019)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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