In this conversation, Richard Rierson, a veteran leader with extensive experience in the Marine Corps and aviation, dives into the importance of challenging authority within organizations. He shares how aviation has improved communication and safety through structured practices, highlighting key incidents that reveal the risks of silence. Listeners learn about empowering teams to voice concerns and the value of a culture that encourages respectful dissent. With insights into the color-coded communication system, Rierson provides practical tools for enhancing teamwork and leadership.
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United 173 Crash
United Airlines Flight 173 crashed in 1978 near Portland due to fuel exhaustion, despite the crew's awareness of low fuel levels.
The captain's focus on a landing gear issue and the crew's deference to his authority prevented them from effectively communicating the critical fuel situation.
insights INSIGHT
Chain of Events
Almost every accident is a chain of small, seemingly insignificant events.
Recognizing and addressing these individual events, or "links in the chain," can prevent them from escalating into major incidents.
volunteer_activism ADVICE
Transparency and Vulnerability
Practice transparency and vulnerability by openly communicating potential risks, like fatigue or personal issues, that might affect performance.
Create a non-judgmental environment where such transparency is encouraged and supported for the sake of overall safety and success.
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In 'Turn the Ship Around!', Captain L. David Marquet recounts his experience as the commander of the USS Santa Fe, a nuclear-powered submarine. Initially trained in the traditional 'know all–tell all' leadership model, Marquet faced significant challenges when he took command of the Santa Fe, which was then one of the worst-performing submarines in the fleet. He realized that the traditional leader-follower approach was ineffective and decided to implement a leader-leader model, where every crew member was empowered to take responsibility and make decisions. This approach led to a dramatic improvement in morale, performance, and retention, transforming the Santa Fe into one of the best submarines in the fleet. The book provides practical insights and strategies for implementing this leadership model in various organizational settings.
Richard Rierson: Dose of Leadership
Richard Rierson has over 30 years of real-world, practical leadership experience as a United States Marine Corps officer, professional aviator, and corporate executive. His philosophy is that our leadership challenges should be met with the lifelong dedication and pursuit of becoming composed, confident, consistent, courageous, and compassionate.
In addition to being a sought after speaker, coach, and consultant, he is the host of the Dose of Leadership podcast. He's also a commercial airline pilot, currently flying as a first officer on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.
In this conversation, Richard and I explore how professional aviation emerged from the accidents of the 1970’s to improve challenging authority inside the cockpit. We discuss the principles of crew resource management (CRM) and how more structure and intention between crew members vastly reduced the number of aviation accidents. We examine what leaders can do to use similar principles to support appropriately challenging authority inside their organizations.
Key Points
Almost every accident is a chain of events. The key is to have self awareness in the chain and to interrupt it.
Making the invitation to challenge before the work begins makes it far more likely that another party will speak up when they see something.
Pilots use green, yellow, and red as simple and immediate indicator to others in the cockpit how much stress they are holding.
Three steps are use to pilots to escalate challenging a more senior pilot: ask a question, make a suggestion, take control i.e. “my aircraft.”
Resources Mentioned
Sully with Tom Hanks
The Crash of Flight 401, and the Lessons for Your Company by Dave Yarin
The Evolution of Airline Crew Resource Management by Jean Dennis Marcellin
Related Episodes
The Way to Turn Followers Into Leaders, with David Marquet (episode 241)
How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block (episode 328)
How to Talk to People Who Have Power, with Jordan Harbinger (episode 343)
How to Use Power Responsibly, with Vanessa Bohns (episode 551)
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