Wayne Kramer, co-founder of MC5, discusses the impact of his band on punk rock and rock and roll. They also talk about his captivating stage persona, his deep connections to Detroit, and his journey of reconnecting with his estranged father. The podcast touches on his early experiences with music, the creation of the iconic punk rock sound, his involvement in radical actions, his struggles with addiction, and his reflections on fatherhood.
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Quick takeaways
The MC5 and Stooges were heavily influenced by avant-garde jazz, incorporating elements into their music and aiming to break down walls.
Wayne Kramer battled addiction and found sobriety after hitting rock bottom multiple times, seeking help in a support group for professionals.
Wayne Kramer collaborated with Johnny Thunders in the unsuccessful band Gang War, maintaining a lifelong friendship despite Thunders' personal struggles.
Deep dives
Influence of Jazz in the MC5 and Stooges' Music
The MC5 and Stooges were heavily influenced by avant-garde jazz music, such as Ferrell Sanders, Albert Ayler, and Son Ra. They consciously tried to integrate these elements into their music, which can be heard in their albums. They listened to the same jazz records, experimented with free-form playing, and aimed to move music forward. Their music was a counter to the orthodoxy and polarizing attitudes of the late 1960s, particularly during the Vietnam War and civil rights movements. They wanted to challenge the status quo and create music that broke down walls.
Wayne Kramer's Journey with Addiction
After serving prison time and struggling with addiction, Wayne Kramer eventually found sobriety. He went through various substances like heroin, cocaine, and pharmaceutical narcotics. He joined methadone programs, detoxed, and replaced one addiction with another. It was only after hitting rock bottom multiple times, including a flight incident, that he sought help in a support group for professionals. This marked a turning point in his life, leading him toward seeking sobriety and living a different life.
Musical Collaboration with Johnny Thunders
Wayne Kramer collaborated with Johnny Thunders in a band called Gang War. Although Thunders was a great guitarist and tone man, the project was ultimately unsuccessful due to Thunders' personal struggles and unpredictable behavior. Kramer acknowledges Thunders' talent and contributions, but the project did not meet expectations. Despite the challenges, they maintained a lifelong friendship and camaraderie, with Thunders being one of the figures who played a significant role in shaping punk rock.
The Birth of the White Panther Party and its Relationship with the Black Panthers
The speaker recounts how the White Panther Party was formed after being inspired by the Black Panthers. They admired the Black Panthers' image and values and wanted to create a parallel group. Despite being initially referred to as psychedelic clowns by the Black Panthers, a relationship eventually developed.
Exploring the MC5's Rise, Drug Abuse, and Prison Experience
The speaker discusses the rise and fall of the MC5, a rock band known for their politically charged music. They reflect on their own indulgence in drugs, particularly heroin, and how it led them to engage in criminal activities and eventually serve time in federal prison. Ultimately, the speaker expresses gratitude for the transformative power of prison and their commitment to advocating for prison reform through initiatives like Jail Guitar Doors USA.
Marc's 2014 conversation with Wayne Kramer, co-founder of the legendary rock group MC5, covering the ‘60s, jazz, Iggy Pop, the White Panther Party, prison, drugs and more. Wayne died on February 2, 2024 at age 75.