Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

249 | Peter Godfrey-Smith on Sentience and Octopus Minds

Sep 11, 2023

In this discussion, Peter Godfrey-Smith, a philosopher of science and octopus intelligence expert, dives into the fascinating world of cephalopods. He explores how studying octopus cognition helps us rethink concepts of sentience and consciousness across species. The conversation reveals the unique problem-solving skills of octopuses, their remarkable nervous systems, and the evolutionary significance of their advanced behaviors. Godfrey-Smith challenges traditional views of intelligence and emphasizes the diversity of conscious experience in the animal kingdom.

01:28:06

Episode guests

Peter Godfrey-Smith

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Quick takeaways

The evolution of complex nervous systems in different species highlights the influence of environmental challenges and opportunities.

Octopuses demonstrate signs of intelligence and likely possess sentience or consciousness.

The combination of point-to-point interactions and holistic electrical patterns in nervous systems contributes to complex behavior and cognitive abilities.

Deep dives

The Evolution of Complex Nervous Systems

Complex nervous systems evolved independently in different evolutionary lines due to the challenges and opportunities posed by the environment. The common ancestor of humans and octopuses lived around 600 million years ago and had a simple nervous system, possibly resembling a centimeter-sized worm. Over time, behavioral complexity and cognitive abilities developed in different evolutionary branches, leading to the diverse range of animals we see today.

Ediacaran Period and Jellyfish Warfare

01:19

Consciousness Terminology Evolution

03:05

The Cognitive Role of Frequency in Flies

01:22

The Unique Approach of Octopuses and Their Behavioral Complexity

03:20

Intro

5min

Exploring Consciousness Through Cephalopods

10min

Exploring Consciousness Through Evolutionary Diversity

3min

Octopus Intelligence and Evolutionary Insights

15min

The Evolutionary Journey of Octopus Intelligence

6min

The Intriguing Nervous System of Octopuses

19min

Complexities of Consciousness and Nervous Systems

33min

The study of cognition and sentience would be greatly abetted by the discovery of intelligent alien beings, who presumably developed independently of life here on Earth. But we do have more than one data point to consider: certain vertebrates (including humans) are quite intelligent, but so are certain cephalopods (including octopuses), even though the last common ancestor of the two groups was a simple organism hundreds of millions of years ago that didn't have much of a nervous system at all. Peter Godfrey-Smith has put a great amount of effort into trying to figure out what we can learn about the nature of thinking by studying how it is done in these animals with very different brains and nervous systems.

Blog post with transcript: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/09/11/249-peter-godfrey-smith-on-sentience-and-octopus-minds/

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Peter Godfrey-Smith received his Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of California, San Diego. He is currently professor in the School of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Sydney. Among his books are Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness and Metazoa: Animal Life and the Birth of the Mind.

Here are some of the papers mentioned in this episode:

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