Unpacking The Gospel with Christian Smith, PhD

9 snips

Nov 6, 2025

In this engaging discussion, sociologist Christian Smith, a professor at Notre Dame and an expert on faith and culture, joins Frank Schaeffer, author of 'The Gospel of Zip.' They delve into the profound lessons dogs teach us about humility and connection, and how love can combat loneliness in a fragmented world. Frank shares insights on upbringing, regret, and the significance of forgiveness. They explore a fresh take on spirituality that transcends dogma, emphasizing that togetherness is essential in addressing division and isolation.

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ANECDOTE

Giving The Book Away Free

Frank describes offering The Gospel of Zip free on YouTube with a former PBS/Nova producer filming each chapter.
He hopes free video access will draw younger viewers into the book's ideas.

INSIGHT

Dogs Reflect Moral Truths

Dogs model humility, forgiveness, and companionship that mirror core Christian moral teachings like the Sermon on the Mount.
Frank Schaeffer argues nature and dog-human bonds independently reinforce values of friendliness over dominance.

ADVICE

Design For How People Consume Today

Make books and messages bite-sized and available where younger people already consume media, like YouTube videos.
Format content into short sections to increase discoverability and engagement among non-readers.

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Unpacking The Gospel with Christian Smith, PhD

Frank Schaeffer joins sociologist Christian Smith, PhD, author of "Why Religion Went Obsolete" and "Moral Believing Animals", for a deep conversation about Frank’s new book, "The Gospel of Zip."

Together they explore the book’s central themes: how dogs teach us humility, forgiveness, and connection; what Frank calls the “survival of the friendliest”; and how love, caregiving, and beauty offer a countercultural answer to division and loneliness.

Frank reflects on growing up as the son of theologian Francis Schaeffer, the lessons of failure and forgiveness, and why he’s giving away "The Gospel of Zip" for free on YouTube.

Watch "The Gospel of Zip"
https://youtu.be/IiYjrYmMWhA

They discuss faith, loss, and finding meaning beyond dogma—and how religion, evolution, and a sweet little brown dog named Zip all point toward the same truth: “Together is good. Alone is bad.”

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0:00 Introduction – Frank introduces Christian Smith
4:00 What The Gospel of Zip is about
10:00 Dogs, humility, and “the survival of the friendliest”
20:00 Writing for younger generations who don’t read
30:00 Faith, doubt, and “an atheist who prays”
45:00 Lessons in regret, forgiveness, and family
1:00:00 The Schaeffer legacy and American evangelicalism
1:20:00 Loneliness, social media, and the loss of connection
1:35:00 Dogs as teachers of mercy and belonging
1:50:00 Closing reflections – “Of course, Ba will come.”
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I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.

Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.

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The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.

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In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip.

Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/

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