In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer

What happens when the architect of a war knows—deep down—that it cannot be won?In this episode of In Conversation with Frank Schaeffer, I speak with William Taubman and Philip Taubman about their new book, McNamara at War: A New History, which is our December “It Has to Be Read” selection.William Taubman is a Pulitzer Prize–winning historian. Philip Taubman is a longtime journalist and former New York Times Washington bureau chief and associate editor. Together, they’ve gone back through diaries, letters, declassified documents, and interviews that were never fully used before. What they found is a more complicated and more troubling picture of Robert McNamara than we’ve had until now.McNamara helped escalate the Vietnam War even as he came to believe it could not be won. Our conversation looks closely at how that happened, why he stayed silent for so long, and what that silence cost us all.For me, this isn’t abstract. I lived through the Vietnam era, and years later my own son served as a U.S. Marine in Afghanistan and Iraq. As we watch Donald Trump blowing up and seizing boats in a march toward conflict with Venezuela, it’s hard not to notice how often the same patterns repeat themselves.McNamara at War is our December “It Has to Be Read” because it doesn’t just explain a war we lost.It forces us to reckon with why we keep losing them._____LINKSI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Landscape designer Steve Griggs joins Frank Schaeffer for a raw, funny, deeply human conversation about rising from a working-class New York childhood to becoming one of America’s premier landscape artists — featured in Forbes, WSJ, HuffPost and Bravo’s Backyard Envy.Steve reveals the truth about designing for the ultra-wealthy, why taste beats money every time, how stonework builds character, what 40 years in the dirt taught him, and why water + fire belong in every garden — from mega-estates to tiny balconies.Frank and Steve go deep on class, beauty, craftsmanship, fathers, work ethic, climate, art, and the joy of creating a space people never want to leave._____LINKSCheck out Steve’s stunning book Straight DirtFollow Steve on Instagram @SteveGriggsDesignVisit Steve Griggs Design Online_____I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Frank Schaeffer talks with bestselling author and theologian Diana Butler Bass about Advent, spiritual resilience, and her new book A Beautiful Year. In this powerful conversation, they explore the meaning of “fear not” in a time of political turmoil, the role of the Christian liturgical calendar in daily life, and how ancient spiritual practices help us navigate modern anxiety, grief, and uncertainty. Diana reflects on the raw beauty of the Christmas story, the humanity of Mary, and why light and darkness are central to Christian spirituality. If you’re searching for insight on Advent, progressive Christianity, the intersection of faith and politics, or how to find hope in overwhelming times, this episode offers clarity, grounding, and real-world encouragement._____LINKSA Beautiful YearDiana Butler Bass: The Cottage_____I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Neurologist Dr. Carolyn Larkin Taylor, MD joins Frank Schaeffer to talk about her powerful new memoir Whispers of the Mind — a life in neurology, grief, intuition, near-death stories, medical gaslighting, and one extraordinary golden retriever named Prancer who became a four-legged healer in the clinic._____LINKShttps://www.carolynlarkintaylorauthor.com/Whispers of the Mind: A Neurologist's Memoirhttps://bookshop.org/a/99692/9781647429362_____Across three decades of practice, Dr. Taylor has walked families through ALS, Parkinson’s, dementia, addiction, traumatic brain injury, concussions, and devastating strokes — including the massive stroke that took her own brother. She and Frank go deep on:How women are routinely dismissed and “gaslit” in medical settingsHer own almost-missed endometrial cancer, brushed off as “just stress”The emotional cost of telling families the worst news a human can hearWhy she nearly quit medicine after her mother died in an ICUThe hidden danger of youth sports concussions and second-impact syndromeNear-death experiences, souls, and why she believes something comes after this lifePrancer the therapy dog: intuitive diagnoses, comforting the paralyzed, and angels in furI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

What happens when a former evangelical-turned-atheist-who-prays sits down with a Catholic engineer–philosopher who nearly became a priest… and then founded a medical device company… and then wrote a book arguing that logic, science, and divinity aren’t enemies but dance partners?Frank Schaeffer speaks with Brian Cranley, author of The Call of Wonder: How the God of Reason Created Science in His Image, about the Big Bang, Aquinas, Plato, Aristotle, cosmology, consciousness, mystery, logic, faith, doubt, and why wonder might be the deepest human instinct we share.A conversation that moves from cosmology to parenting, from quantum beginnings to spiritual hunger, from medical science to metaphysics, and straight into the heart of what it means to be human.Brian’s book: The Call of Wonder: How the God of Reason Created Science in His Imagehttps://briancranley.comI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist Karen Elliott House joins Frank Schaeffer to talk about her remarkable new book, The Man Who Would Be King, Muhammad bin Salman and the Transformation of Saudi Arabia.Across four decades of reporting on the Middle East and Saudi Arabia, Karen has developed rare access to the kingdom’s inner world — including seven in-depth meetings with Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman (MBS), often late at night inside the palace.In this conversation, Frank and Karen dive into:How a strict Texas church girl became one of the world’s sharpest Saudi observersWhy MBS is part Peter the Great, part Napoleon, and part ruthless modernizerWomen’s stunning rise in the Saudi workforce — and how religious men are left behindThe murder of Jamal Khashoggi, internal repression, and the culture of “disappearing” criticsHow MBS is navigating Gaza, Hamas, Israel recognition, and the Wahhabi clericsParallels between Islamic fundamentalism and American evangelical extremismWhether America is in decline — and why Karen still believes in renewal, history, and familyKaren’s book: The Man Who Would Be King, Muhammad bin Salman and the Transformation of Saudi ArabiaI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Engineer and author Barbara Oakley joins Frank Schaeffer to explore how censorship damages the brain, why education is broken, and how real thinking can save democracy._____https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learnhttps://www.lovechildrenplanet.com/events/barbara-oakley-how-free-speech-amp-cognitive-flexibility-save-democracy_____I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

In this engaging discussion, sociologist Christian Smith, a professor at Notre Dame and an expert on faith and culture, joins Frank Schaeffer, author of 'The Gospel of Zip.' They delve into the profound lessons dogs teach us about humility and connection, and how love can combat loneliness in a fragmented world. Frank shares insights on upbringing, regret, and the significance of forgiveness. They explore a fresh take on spirituality that transcends dogma, emphasizing that togetherness is essential in addressing division and isolation.

Why am I giving my book away for free?I’ve been a writer my whole life, but this book—The Gospel of Zip—is different. It’s about my dog, Zip. It’s about my fifty-six-year relationship with my wife, Genie. It’s about what I’ve learned really matters: love, caregiving, family, friendship. In a world that feels more divided than ever, I wanted to offer something honest and healing. That’s why I’m not just selling this book. I’m giving it away for free.For the last seven years, I’ve poured myself into this project. No strings attached. No catch. Not because I don’t value my work, but because I value the message even more. At seventy-three, I don’t need to chase a publisher’s advance or turn this into a fundraising campaign. What I want most is to share what I’ve discovered: that the secret to surviving hard times—Trump years, culture wars, political dysfunction—is the same secret that has kept Genie and me together for over half a century. Love. Care. Community. Or, as I put it in the book, “the survival of the friendliest.”We live in an era of echo chambers and algorithms that divide us. But history—and even a dog like Zip—teaches us something better. People have endured far darker times than these by leaning into cooperation, connection, and kindness. That’s the lesson Zip lives out every day: greeting everyone as a friend, finding common ground where I might not, reminding me that forgiveness and joy are more powerful than resentment. If we can learn to live that way ourselvesI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.  Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip. Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Dr. Clint Heacock, an author and theologian who explores cult dynamics and high-control religion, shares his transformative journey from conservative Christianity to deconstructing his faith. He reveals the emotional trauma of growing up under Bill Gothard's teachings, including the pressure of purity culture and rapture anxiety. Clint discusses the cognitive dissonance that keeps followers entrenched in faith despite failed prophecies and explores how authoritarian practices impact family relationships. His insights provide hope for those healing and seeking authentic spiritual integrity.