Join us for a conversation with Joseph J. Ellis, an American historian whose work focuses on the founders of the United States of America. His books include American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson and Passionate Sage: The Character and Legacy of John Adams. Ellis speaks about how important presidential leadership is during times of crisis.

Find this episode, along with recommended reading, on the blog. Support the show by joining the 1776 Club or by donating to the Thomas Jefferson Hour, Inc. You can learn more about Clay's cultural tours & retreats at jeffersonhour.com/tours. Check out our new merch. You can find Clay's publications on our website, along with a list of his favorite books on Jefferson, Lewis & Clark, and other topics. Thomas Jefferson is interpreted by Clay S. Jenkinson.