Evan Wolfson, a trailblazing attorney and gay rights pioneer, founded Freedom to Marry, leading the charge for marriage equality. He shares captivating insights about the fierce resistance within the gay community during early activism and the monumental breakthrough in Hawaii. Reflecting on his personal journey, he discusses his formative experiences, the impact of the AIDS crisis, and the evolving landscape of public support for marriage equality. Wolfson highlights coalition-building strategies that turned the tide in favor of love and legal recognition.
Evan Wolfson stresses that the fight for marriage equality exemplifies one of the most effective civil rights movements in recent history.
His personal journey of understanding his sexual identity highlights the complexities faced by many while navigating societal expectations and norms.
The podcast emphasizes the significance of coalition building, advocating for dialogue with differing views to enhance the marriage equality movement's impact.
Deep dives
The Impact of Marriage Equality Advocacy
One of the key discussions revolves around the advocacy for marriage equality, highlighting its significance as one of the most successful civil rights movements in modern history. The guest has played a pivotal role in strategizing and leading the movement, particularly through his work with Freedom to Marry, until the mission was accomplished. His insights emphasize the need for structured approaches that can be applied to various causes, showing how the tactics used in the marriage equality fight can impact other social issues. This broader application of strategies demonstrates the effective nature of organized activism and the importance of persistence.
Personal Upbringing and Early Awareness
The guest’s early life in Brooklyn and Pittsburgh sets the context for his understanding of identity and family dynamics. Growing up in a supportive household instilled values of love and connection, especially after the loss of both parents, which profoundly influenced his emotional landscape. His childhood experiences of recognizing his sexual orientation without having the specific vocabulary for it highlight the nuanced journey of understanding one's identity. This foundational background offers insight into how his formative years shaped his later activism and views on marriage.
Navigating Identity in High School
The guest reflects on his high school years, where he cultivated close friendships and navigated the complexities of his sexual identity during a time when vocabulary and awareness were limited. Despite a supportive environment, he faced the internal struggle of understanding and coming to terms with being gay, often engaging in relationships with girls while harboring his true self. His experiences resonate with many who felt pressure to conform to a standard narrative while grappling with their authentic identities. The recollections of revisiting high school friendships further emphasize the lasting impact of those relationships and shared experiences.
Activism Amid AIDS Crisis
The AIDS epidemic is presented as a transformative event that reshaped public understanding of the LGBTQ+ community and intensified the urgency for advocacy. During this dire time, many activists, including the guest, faced the dual challenge of dealing with personal loss while fighting for rights and recognition. They recognized the need for inclusive narratives that highlighted the humanity of those affected, ultimately bridging gaps in societal perception. The push for marriage equality gained momentum as advocates connected personal stories of care and responsibility during times of crisis to the broader fight for rights.
Evolving Strategies and Coalition Building
As the conversation unfolds, the importance of coalition building is emphasized, illustrating how diverse alliances can advance goals like marriage equality. The guest advocates for an approach that seeks common ground with those who may have differing views on other issues creating space for dialogue and understanding. This philosophy underlines a critical component of successful activism: the ability to evolve and adapt strategies to mobilize wider support while remaining open to collaboration. Through these collective efforts, activists can amplify their messages and create a more inclusive movement.
Evan is an attorney and gay rights pioneer. He founded and led Freedom to Marry — the campaign to win marriage until victory at the Supreme Court in 2015, after which he then wound down the organization. During those days he wrote the book Why Marriage Matters: America, Equality, and Gay People’s Right to Marry. Today he “advises and assists diverse organizations, movements, and countries in adapting the lessons on how to win to other important causes.” We became friends in the 90s as we jointly campaigned for what was then a highly unpopular idea.
For two clips of our convo — on the early, fierce resistance to gay marriage by gay activists, and the “tectonic” breakthrough in Hawaii — pop over to our YouTube page.
Other topics: raised in Pittsburgh by a pediatrician and a social worker; being a natural leader in high school; his awakening as a gay kid; the huge influence of John Boswell on both of us; working at Lambda Legal; Peace Corps in West Africa; a prosecutor in Brooklyn; the AIDS crisis; coalition building; engaging hostile critics; Peter Tatchell; lesbian support over kids; the ACLU’s Dan Foley; Judge Chang in Hawaii; Clinton and DOMA; Bush and the Federal Marriage Amendment; the federalist approach and Barney Frank; Prop 8; the LDS self-correcting on gays; the huge swing in public support; Obama not endorsing marriage in 2008; Obergefell and Kennedy’s dignitas; Trump removing the GOP’s anti-marriage plank; Bostock; dissent demonized within the gay community; the Respect for Marriage Act; and Evan and me debating the transqueer backlash.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Claire Lehmann on the success of Quillette, Francis Collins on faith and science and Covid, Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee on Covid’s political fallout, Sam Tanenhaus on Bill Buckley, Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson on the Biden years, and Paul Elie on his book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.
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