Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes

Live from the Munich Security Conference: Europe’s wake-up call

Feb 17, 2025

Ulrike Franke, Camille Grand, and Janka Oertel offer rich insights on European security and defense during their discussion from the Munich Security Conference. They dive into the implications of Trump's abrupt peace talks for Ukraine and the resulting European anxieties. The trio addresses the need for a cohesive European response and the urgency for stronger unity amid shifting transatlantic relations. They also explore the balance between internal threats and external pressures from powers like Russia and China, reflecting on the evolving geopolitical landscape.

38:57

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Episode guests

Janka Oertel

Camille Grand

Ulrike Franke

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

The podcast emphasizes the fading U.S. assurance in European defense, highlighting a reevaluation of transatlantic relations amid growing crises.

Ukrainian President Zelensky's call for a unified European army signifies a shift towards greater European autonomy in collective security strategies.

Deep dives

Crisis in Transatlantic Relations

The podcast highlights the growing sense of crisis in transatlantic relations, particularly regarding European defense. Speakers noted that the usual assurance from the U.S. is fading, with Vice President J.D. Vance's controversial speech emphasizing internal threats over traditional external threats like Russia and China. This shift in narrative suggests a reevaluation of U.S. involvement in European security, leaving European nations uncertain about their future defense strategies. The prevailing sentiment at the Munich Security Conference was grim, highlighting a lack of confidence in the U.S.-European partnership.

Intro

2min

Shifting Alliances and European Defense

11min

Navigating Europe's Response to the Ukraine Conflict

2min

Zelensky's Vision: Ukrainian Strength and European Security

14min

Shifting Perceptions: Internal vs External Threats in European Security

2min

Navigating the Turbulent Waters of U.S. Foreign Policy

2min

Reflections from Munich: Security and Strategy

7min

Last week, US president Donald Trump shocked Europeans when he announced the start of peace talks on the war in Ukraine, following a call with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin. Trump’s announcement fuelled fears that peace talks could begin without Ukrainians or Europeans at the table, and result in key concessions to Moscow.

In this episode, recorded live from the Munich Security Conference, Mark Leonard welcomes senior policy fellow Ulrike Franke, distinguished policy fellow Camille Grand, senior policy fellow and director of ECFR’s Asia programme Janka Oertel, and senior policy fellow and head of ECFR’s Berlin office Jana Puglierin. Together, they unpack this year's conference and discuss the state of transatlantic relations and the condition of European security. What do Trump’s plans for peace talks entail for Ukraine? How can Europe secure a role in the negotiations? And what must Europeans do to provide solid security guarantees and secure the continent’s future?

Bookshelf

Ende der China-Illusion by Janka Oertel

Transatlantic twilight: European public opinion and the long shadow of Trump by Jana Puglierin, Arturo Varvelli and Pawel Zerka

The Plot against America by Philip Roth

Es werden schöne Tage kommen by Zach Williams

Die Rückkehr des Krieges by Franz-Stefan Gady

The Age of Unpeace by Mark Leonard

This podcast was recorded during the Munich Security Conference (14-16 February 2024)

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