Fired from First Presidency (Matt Harris 5 of 6)

Hugh B Brown risked literally everything to try to overturn the priesthood/temple ban in the LDS Church. For that he was dismissed from First Presidency. Dr Matt Harris discusses Brown's attempts to end the ban just before Pres McKay's death, which led to him being dropped from the First Presidency. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/G9C2No5bfVY Don't miss our other conversations with Matt: https://gospeltangents.com/people/matt-harris/ Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.   Fired From First Presidency GT  00:13  I'm trying to remember where to go next. I've got two or three questions here. I want to do them all. Since we're talking about the apostles, I want to dive back in. I know we talked about that in our previous interview, but when I read your book, it sounded like there was new information that you didn't know five years ago. So, let me frame it this way. In 1969, [Michael Quinn] tells a story that there was a vote to rescind the ban, and it was unanimous for all present, but Harold B. Lee wasn't there. I'm trying to remember. So, basically there was a re-vote, and I remember you said that President Kimball went to President Brown and said, basically, "I'm with you, President Brown, but I fear Elder Lee." Matt  1:13  Yes. GT  1:14  And I think that was the genesis for the 1969 statement, and it wasn't signed by President McKay, because he died a month later, I think it was. Matt  1:26  Correct. GT  1:27  And basically it said, "We don't know why the ban is, but God knows." So, then fast forward to 1978 and then the ban is lifted. I remember the question that I had at the time, and I think, at the time, you didn't know what was Elder Benson's position in 1969 and 1978? Because when I read that in your book, I was floored to hear, especially President Benson, how he changed. So, can you talk about those two important meetings, as well as the 1969 statement that was a result of that? Matt  2:18  So there's two events going on here. One would be September of 1969 where Hugh Brown, he's a counselor in the First Presidency. When he was called into the First Presidency in 1961, he gave the brethren fits from the get go. He is a liberal Canadian. Those are not my words. Those are words he used. In fact, a couple of years before he died, he gave an oral history with his [grand]son, Ed Firmage, who was a law professor at the University of Utah for his career. Ed passed away a few years ago, and Ed was very close with his grandfather and recognized that his grandfather was a significant leader. So, gratefully, Ed interviewed hours worth of interviews with his grandfather in 1968 and 1969. A little tiny bit of that interview was published by Signature Books in the late 1980s. It's billed as the memoir of Hugh Brown, and the tiny bit of that, it's not a very big book. It’s definitely worth looking at. But only a fraction of those dozens and dozens of hours made it into that book. I have all the hours in the transcripts.  So, I can tell you what made it in and what didn't. But maybe 5% of the interview made it in that book. So ,there's a whole chunk that's not. Brown was very candid in those interviews. He told his [grand]son, Now, keep in mind he's in his eighties when he's giving these interviews, and his mind is still really sharp. And he said to his grandson. His mind is still really sharp. He said to Ed Firmage that I am more a liberal today than I've ever been, and the longer I've lived, the more I believe in the rightness of my Democratic Party. It's a good thing Ezra Taft Benson wasn't in the room. And so that's what he said. He always identified as a liberal. Those are not my words. [In] reading his politics. That's how he identified. Matt  4:34  And so he posed fits for the brethren on two fronts. One was the ban. He never thought it was compatible with the gospel.