431 - Joshua Sturgill & Dcn Seraphim Rohlin - The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology

Jan 20, 2026

Join Joshua Sturgill, a scholar of medieval philosophy and ancient cosmology, alongside Deacon Seraphim Rohlin, as they delve into the fascinating intersection of ancient beliefs and modernity. They discuss how ancient people understood the night sky, the impact of cosmic symbolism on the soul, and why we should recover cosmological thinking today. Topics like the dangers of astrology, the relationship between heaven and earth, and the significance of seasonal cycles and celestial events, such as the Magi's star, highlight the richness of ancient wisdom.

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insights

INSIGHT

Sky As The Divine Classroom

Ancient cultures saw the night sky as the visible face of the divine and a classroom for moral order.
Joshua Sturgill argues that heaven and earth mirror each other and humans bridge their patterns.

insights

INSIGHT

Stars As Signs, Not Determinants

The stars give a 'logos' or proclamation, not deterministic control; they mark seasons and meanings rather than compel will.
Both Joshua Sturgill and Jonathan Pageau stress Christian rejection of astral determinism while keeping symbolic significance.

insights

INSIGHT

Medieval Balance: Influence Without Fatalism

Medieval thinkers like Thomas Aquinas accepted limited celestial influence on temperament but rejected fatalism.
John of Damascus similarly taught stars affect dispositions via air and seasons yet reason and will remain decisive.

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Guests Introduced and Setting

01:17 • 44sec

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Joshua's Background and Teaching

02:01 • 2min

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Why Recover Cosmology Now

04:00 • 3min

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Course Invitation: Imitating Heaven

07:10 • 1min

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Heaven, Earth, and Symbolic Cosmology

08:33 • 3min

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Genesis, Fractals, and Biblical Patterns

11:25 • 2min

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Plato's Timaeus and Pythagorean Influence

12:57 • 2min

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Cross-Cultural Cosmologies

14:33 • 2min

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Christian Reservations and Ancient Critiques

16:25 • 2min

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Distinguishing Astronomy from Divination

18:30 • 1min

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Heavens in Christian Worship

19:54 • 3min

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Psalms, Zodiacal Imagery, and Apostles

22:43 • 3min

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Practical Astrology vs. Symbolic Culture

25:22 • 2min

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What Does Spring Mean?

26:59 • 4min

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Christmas, Solstice, and Symbolic Dates

30:47 • 3min

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John of Damascus on Stars and Signs

33:46 • 2min

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Medieval Views and Free Will

35:34 • 5min

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Comets, Signs, and the Magi's Star

40:34 • 4min

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Hierarchy, Seven Heavens, and Angels

44:15 • 4min

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Astronomical Literacy and Seasonal Life

48:19 • 11min

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Chaco Canyon and Architectural Calendars

59:30 • 2min

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Rebuilding a Calendar and Mathematical Roots

01:01:47 • 4min

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Course Logistics and Goals

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"Ancient people knew the sky the way that we know the highways around our cities."
Today's podcast is a bit different. Deacon Seraphim Rohlin is here to introduce you to our new Symbolic World Course presenter, Joshua Sturgill. Together they discuss ancient cosmology, symbolism, and the meaning, power, and dangers of observing the night sky. They discuss pagan views on this, Biblical astronomy, the reservations of the church fathers, and modernity's determinism on the one hand, and confusion on the other hand. I hope you enjoy this conversation and will join us for Joshua's course.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/fQY6AyE1n1c

NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua Sturgill
What is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?
🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.
💰 Price: $150 USD
⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:00 - Intro music
01:24 - Introduction
04:15 - Recover cosmology
08:32 - Symbolism and cosmology
12:43 - The Greeks: Pythagoras and Plato
14:39 - Other traditions
16:07 - Criticisms against astronomy
21:28 - How astrology worked
25:24 - A concrete example
26:57 - What does spring mean?
30:47 - Christmas
33:43 - The Orthodox position
37:22 - Governed by natural laws
45:55 - For the ancients
59:30 - Architectural astronomy
01:01:43 - Technology and teaching
01:05:41 - Course info

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

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