The Burnt Toast Podcast [PREVIEW] Can You Wear Birkenstocks with Skinny Jeans?
You’re listening to Burnt Toast!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your April Indulgence Gospel.
Virginia
Which we are recording in the same room!
Corinne
It’s really weird. I’m really used to looking at my computer screen to see you.
Virginia
I’m not in there.
Corinne
It’s confusing.
Virginia
To paint the picture for everyone: I came to New Mexico. It’s my kids’ spring break from school. They’re on a trip with their dad. So I came to New Mexico so we could have the first official Burnt Toast offsite work retreat. I mean, it’s always offsite because we work out of our houses, but now we’re not in our houses. We are at Ojo Caliente, which is a hot springs spa resort in New Mexico, near Santa Fe. We spent the morning in the hot springs and now we are recording a podcast in my hotel room. We are surrounded by all of the pillows from the bed. You will need to bear with this audio not necessarily being quite as perfect as our normal audio because we are not in our home studios.
Corinne
We will make up for that with in-person chemistry.
Virginia
The banter should be more delightful than ever! Here’s what we’re getting into:
What to say if your tween switches to Diet Coke?
How to embrace “joyful movement” when you hate exercise.
Are electrolyte drinks a fun “end of day” beverage?
Virginia’s most unpopular opinion (yes it’s about skinny jeans).
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Episode 139 Transcript
Corinne
So, we’re here in person and the first thing I said to Virginia when I saw her today was, “what are those pants?” because they’re really cute.
Virginia
And they are of course the Beyond Yoga comfy joggers that I wear every day.
Corinne
I have so far resisted buying them, but I think my resistance might be over.
Virginia
I mean, I’m very comfortable. I don’t have a lot of new things to say about these joggers because I’ve talked about them incessantly.
I will say that yesterday while we were visiting the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum, which we’ll talk about later, we were both wearing our Universal Standard straight leg jeans. And we were both hiking up our jeans a lot.
Corinne
As we discussed with Dacy, I have—well, I’m not sure I even admitted this in the Dacy episode. I actually have those pants in three sizes.
Virginia
I think you said two sizes.
Corinne
I have three, I realized, and I was wearing the biggest ones. And I’m in the week after my period, so maybe that was a mistake.
Virginia
You are now back to needing to be in your smallest ones.
Corinne
Also what we realized is, you can’t put your wallet in your pocket when you’re wearing them. It pulls them down.
Virginia
Drags them down. And we were just having a discussion in the Burnt Toast essay comments about using pockets for phones. I was like, I don’t because they pull my pants off my body. That was a real struggle for us yesterday.
Corinne
You maybe just need to buy those jeans in two more sizes.
Virginia
I’ll be waiting for sales.
Corinne
Or do we just need belts?
Virginia
Do we need belts?
Corinne
I can’t imagine wearing those pants with a belt.
Virginia
I don’t think I want a belt in my life. I feel pretty anti-belt.
Do you have any other pants news? Any new pants you’re excited about?
Corinne
It’s starting to get hot here, so I’m thinking way less about pants than I am about shorts. I have a few shorts that I have my eye on that I’m thinking about buying. I was traveling last week and I’ve become really dependent on these pants from the brand Free Label that are are no longer being made. So I’m starting to get stressed about it. Like, what’s going to be the replacement? They’re bamboo so they’re super soft and they’re a narrow leg. They’re just black, soft pants with a narrow leg. They’re versatile. You can wear them on the plane but also to the restaurant.
Virginia
Speaking as someone still working through her skinny jeans trauma, you know you had me at narrow leg.
Corinne
But they’re not leggings, you know what I mean?
Virginia
They’re a taper. And I’m on a perpetual quest for the correct taper.
Corinne
I did message Free Label and they said they’re going to be making something similar in the fall.
Virginia
Okay, Free Label. If you’re listening, we’re waiting.
Corinne
Hopefully these pants last until the fall.
Virginia
I’m having an overall craving because one of my kids asked for overalls for Easter, and is so, so thrilled with them and looks so cute in them. I realize I’m not a six year old, but it made me also want overalls. So I may be considering an overall purchase. I need to go back to some of our threads where we’ve recommended overalls.
Corinne
Overalls are a very good look.
Virginia
Alright, I also have a quick update to read before we get to questions. So this came from a listener who wrote in to us a few months ago because she was planning a trip to New York City.
She was going with a group of friends and she was the one fat friend and she was going to be pregnant. She was really stressed about going to Broadway and fitting in the theater seats and her friends were trying to buy tickets. We were really mad at her thin friends for not doing better advocacy for her, and had a lot of thoughts on how she could get through the trip. I just got this update from her. I think the trip was happening eminently. She wrote,
I wanted to update you on the NYC Broadway situation. I did do some digging on the seat size at the venue of the specific show we were going to see and it showed up in a few posts about the really restrictive seating of certain theaters, so I didn’t feel the need to dig any further. I decided to just mention the seating situation to my one friend who I’m the closest with and we ended up making alternate plans, just the two of us, for the night the rest are going to Broadway. I’m very excited because we are going to a fancy Top Chef tasting menu dinner at the restaurant of the most recent Top Chef world winner. So it should be an awesome night for us and any awkwardness was avoided. Maybe not a win for overall fat liberation, but it certainly liberates my own fat body from discomfort, so I call that a win.
Corinne
I love this update because I know whose restaurant you’re going to. I’m also a Top Chef fan. I think we had suggested maybe you could just do something else, so I feel like this is a great solution.
Virginia
Total win. I love that you have that one friend who got it, and was on board and supportive, and you’re going to have a wonderful night. We love it.
Corinne
Totally. Thanks for that update.
Virginia
Alright, should we do our questions?
Corinne
I’m going to read the first one because maybe now you have something to say about it.
What is the best breakfast burrito in Albuquerque? And Virginia, how many did you eat?
Virginia
Okay, so I’ve only been here two days so far but I am committed to this mission of eating a breakfast burrito every day I’m in New Mexico. I’ve had two so far. Yesterday I had one in Albuquerque. What was the name of that restaurant?
Corinne
We went to Duran’s Central Pharmacy.
Virginia
It was spectacular and Corinne told me to get both red and green chile which I understand is called Christmas style. I loved it. This morning I had one in the restaurant here at Ojo because that’s the only place with breakfast here. And I went again with Christmas style. I feel like the Duran’s one was a little better. This one was good but I wasn’t like quite as blown away as I was by Duran’s. Although, to be fair, yesterday I got chorizo and today I got bacon. So I’m not being really clean with my data collection here. It’s not an apples to apples. But I do think the next thing we need to do is I need a drive thru breakfast burrito tomorrow to round out the experience.
Corinne
Let me just tell everyone a little bit about breakfast burritos. You can get breakfast burritos in a restaurant and they come on a plate and usually are covered in red and or green chile. You can also get breakfast burritos, like a handheld version, often through a drive thru, which is really fun and one of my favorite things probably about living in Albuquerque.
I could never pick a favorite, that would be like asking me to pick a favorite child because they all have different pluses and minuses. Like there are some that are more spicy and are some that have real eggs and some that have the powdered eggs and—
Virginia
Wait, why would a powdered egg burrito ever be a contender?
Corinne
Because the powdered egg burrito has really incredible potatoes. Really crispy square potatoes. And sometimes you need a quick drive thru burrito and sometimes you want the one that you have to wait in line for. There are a lot of different things to take into consideration.
Virginia
Do you want to shout out a few more places? I’m not going to get to all of them on this trip, but just for New Mexico fans.
Corinne
Sure! If you’re visiting—I mean, if anyone in Burnt Toast is visiting Albuquerque, send me a message. One Albuquerque classic place is Golden Pride. They have a couple of locations and a couple of drive throughs. I also like Stripes. I really like El Modelo, which was not a drive through. Blake’s is another New Mexico chain that has great breakfast burritos. I think those are good places to start.
Virginia
Well, we’ll hit up one of them tomorrow. I’m excited.
The next question has really rocked my world in a profound way. I’ve been thinking about it since it came in. Do you want to read it?
Corinne
Is the concern for what shoes to wear with pants a generational thing? Class? I pick shoes based on activity and occasion but it has nothing to do with pant length or width.
Virginia
If you’ve missed previous Indulgence Gospel episodes, I am on a perpetual journey to embrace straight leg jeans, but I struggle quite a lot with what shoes to wear with them. Because I always think about pants length and width with shoes! And I’ve been thinking for days that this person never considers that. What would my life be like if I never considered pants length or width when picking shoes?
Corinne
I don’t know. I’m a little like, does this person have no ego? You never think about how something you wear looks?
Virginia
I’m fascinated. But they say, “pick shoes based on activity and occasion,” so I’m assuming by occasion that would include, like, a more formal shoe to certain things or a more casual shoe, but not consider the pants length and width.
Corinne
I sort of get this and I sort of don’t. On the one hand I’m like, but then I would just always be wearing…
Virginia
Yeah, what shoes would you always wear?
Corinne
I don’t know. That’s a good question. My first thought is I have these Merrell hiking boots that I think are so comfortable. But also like they’re kind of hot and they’re lace up. They’re annoying to put on.
Virginia
You’re not going to want to wear hiking boots every day of your life.
Corinne
So I don’t know. I feel like if if it was possible, in another world, I would just wear socks all the time.
Virginia
If we could have a shoeless society. I feel like I would wear Birkenstocks most of the year.
Corinne
Sandals?
Virginia
In a world where we have no weather, yes. Or possibly go between like the Birkenstock Boston clogs and a regular Birkenstock based on weather. And I cannot wear Birkenstocks with certain pants.
Corinne
You can’t wear Birkenstocks with certain pants?
Virginia
With skinny jeans. No.
Corinne
I think I disagree with that.
Virginia
No, I can’t, Corinne. I can’t do it. Don’t say I’m adding this to the Style Challenge because I am not.
Corinne
You can’t wear Birkenstock sandals with skinny jeans?
Virginia
If the skinny jean is cropped, I can. But if the skinny jean is like covering my ankle—Am I revealing myself to be an absolutely unhinged person right now?
Corinne
Do you have ankle fatphobia?
Virginia
No. But if jeans are covering my ankles, I think they look weird with the Birkenstocks.
Corinne
I need a photo because I just can’t picture this.
Virginia
I can’t explain how I know these things to be true. But I know them in my soul. Like on a cellular level.
Corinne
Wait, can you wear the Birkenstock clogs with skinny jeans?
Virginia
No. It’s too chunky of a shoe with a very tight ankle. It can do a cropped jean with a visible ankle, or it can do a wider leg. It can do shorts, no problem.
Corinne
What are the skinny jean shoes?
Virginia
A cute sneaker or an ankle boot. If it’s summer, maybe a more stripped down sandal, something less bulky than a Birkenstock.
Corinne
Okay. I don’t think I’ve ever considered Birkenstocks a bulky shoe.
Virginia
They’re absolutely a bulky shoe.
Corinne
I feel like a bulky shoe is a hiking boot.
Virginia
But for a sandal. They are the bulkiest of sandals. Compare them to a flip flop.
Corinne
I would never wear flip flops.
Virginia
I don’t know what this question reveals about me. I have such strong feelings and I can’t articulate it at all.
Corinne
We need some deeper digging on this pant/shoe thing. We need a therapist to come in. Where did you learn this?
Virginia
I don’t know.
Corinne
Who else in your family has this problem?
Virginia
I should talk to my sister.
Corinne
Or is this from Seventeen Magazine?
Virginia
I mean, that place did a number on me. I carry a lot of scars. I carry a lot of scars.
I will say my dad, at Easter, was wearing Hokas and they were black with rainbow accents. We were so proud of him for buying such a trendy shoe! And he said, “Why? What brand are they?” Because my dad does not care about clothes. It was really adorable because we were like, “Who has the cool Hokas?” and he was like, “What’s a Hoka?”
Corinne
Like, how did you even end up with those, without knowing?
Virginia
It was amazing. But I can promise you, he has never thought about how his sneakers look with his pants. So I didn’t learn this from him.
Corinne
Do you have the same thing with like, shirts and pants? Or is it just pants and shoes?
Virginia
I mean, I think with shirts it’s a length thing sometimes, like certain pants don’t go with a certain length shirt? But I think I’m probably more flexible there. I have really rigid beliefs about shoes and pants. I don’t know, guys, this is some ideology that I bought into long ago and I’m open to unlearning, but I want to know more about this person who never considers pant length or width.
Corinne
Do you think it’s a generational or class thing?
Virginia
I’m always willing to say it’s a class thing. We can always blame the Connecticut WASPs.
Corinne
Yeah. I mean, it does seem like if you only had one pair of shoes this wouldn’t be a thing. But I don’t know.
Virginia
I think all fashion trends are classist. All fashion rules are inherently classist. Generational? I don’t know.
Corinne
I’m pretty sure my mom doesn’t worry about this.
Virginia
No, I don’t think my mom worries about it either. So maybe it is a millennial thing?
Corinne
We need a Gen Z person to tell us.
Virginia
All I’m saying is these things go deep and I don’t know exactly how to break out of this trap. But here we are.
Continuing with fashion questions:
What are our predictions for summer fashion trends?
Corinne
My prediction is shorts. Shorts will be worn. That is my prediction. Shorts are on trend. Not being hot is really cool for this summer.
Virginia
So if you were making an in/out list for summer, shorts are in. Is there anything that’s out for you?
Corinne
Oh I don’t know. I haven’t quite pulled out my shorts yet. I kind of feel like linen shorts might be out.
Virginia
We know you’re over linen pants.
Corinne
I’m just tired of linen, I guess. Like I said, I’ve been looking for shorts. One thing I’ve been looking for is some elastic waist black or navy blue shorts that aren’t linen. Last year, I was wearing a lot of bike shorts and I’m curious if that will continue this summer.
Virginia
I struggled to style bike shorts.
Corinne
That’s right. Yes.
Virginia
So perhaps I should continue to experiment with that.
Virginia
A shorts-related trend I am excited for is, we linked a while ago to this really cute set that Target was doing with a long-sleeve striped shirt and an elastic waist short. And I actually have the set with me here in Albuquerque. It hasn’t been quite shorts weather, but I optimistically packed sandals and I optimistically packed a pair of shorts. I mean, I was leaving the Northeast, I had to be open to the possibility.
Corinne
You should wear them today just because.
Virginia
Well, I will tell you, I bought this set because it was on sale at Target. And then I was on Instagram and Chrissy King, who is stunningly beautiful and fashionable, was on a trip to Mexico City wearing the same set. And I was like, oh, I’m here for this, Chrissy. It looked really good on her.
I don’t think I’ll be pulling it off with quite the same level of glamour. But yeah, it looked really cute. She wore the shirt unbuttoned over a white tank top. I think I’m here for sets for summer.
Corinne
One thing I feel like I need is a sun hat. Not a baseball cap.
Virginia
Whereas I need a sun hat that’s not three feet in diameter because I only have this giant one that was too big to fit in my suitcase. Do I need a baseball cap? But I don’t think I have the head for baseball caps.
Corinne
Interesting. As for what will be trending for everyone else?
Virginia
We cannot know that because we are not 22-year-old TikTokers who will tell us at the appointed time what we will be wearing.
Corinne
I feel like there is always a sandal that everyone has and I don’t know what it’s going to be.
Virginia
I feel like the flatform sandals are still very in.
Corinne
I got a chunky sole Birkenstock last summer and they’re really good. They’re in good enough shape that I can wear them again.
Virginia
I did get a bright green pair of Birkenstocks. Those are my Optimistic Sandals that I packed for this trip and I love them. I’m into that very bright kelly green. But I want to hear what other people think about this one!
Corinne
Yeah. Tell us your summer fashion trends. Okay.
It seems like the rules on neutral colors are changing. What’s your stance?
Virginia
I grouped this with the fashion questions because I’m assuming they mean clothing, but they might also mean home decor? I do think we’ve seen a very big shift from the beige, neutral, minimalist home decor to maximalist home decor. Much more color saturation, painting your ceiling and trim the same colors as the walls, wallpaper, lots of fun little patterns, pattern mixing. And I’m here for all of it. I love it.
Corinne
I didn’t know this. I didn’t know that the rules on neutral colors were changing.
Virginia
Well, you’re pro-neutral colors, too. More so than me.
Corinne
I don’t know how I feel about this. When I heard this question, I was thinking that maybe some brighter colors were becoming neutrals.
Virginia
Well, as you know, I believe red is a neutral.
Corinne
That’s what I was thinking of, you thinking red is a neutral. I think there are some prints that are kind of neutrals now. Like leopard print I think is kind of a neutral.
Virginia
Oh, I cannot do leopard print. I respect it, but I just always think it looks like you’re trying to wear a dead animal. And yet my animal-loving children love leopard print. I think they see it as an homage. I mean, I’m inconsistent. We have fake fur throws in my house, so whatever.
I would also say that black and white stripes or navy and white stripes—stripes are neutral. I think stripes in general are neutral.
Corinne
One place that I have really let neutrals go actually is bedding. I’ve gotten really into printed sheets.
Virginia
It’s hard because the bougie high quality sheet brands still do a lot of neutrals. Like Brooklinen or all the ones that Instagram sells you. It’s all neutral tones.
Corinne
Brooklinen has some bright colors.
Virginia
Oh yes, they do a bright pink.
Corinne
I have like a bright lime-y yellow green and a patterned sheet set from them. Also Anthropologie home.
Virginia
They have gorgeous stuff.
Corinne
And, I see this brand all the time on Instagram—Piglet in Bed? They have really cute colorful striped bedding. Someone tell us if it’s actually good, because it’s very cute.
Virginia
Amy and I both got a set of Pottery Barn Teen sheets for our respective beds. I think for patterns, it often helps to look at the teen lines. And yes, we’re Sheet Twins from multiple states away. That’s just how our friendship is. I’m totally comfortable with that.
Corinne
Actually the first printed floral sheets I bought, my best friend recommended.
Virginia
Yes, I copied her completely.
So I’m here for changing away from neutral colors. I think neutrals can be helpful and sometimes you just want a base. I’m just looking at my shirts on the wall over there, and I did kind of pick blue/teal as the one color I brought. So things would kind of go together and I wasn’t jumbling a lot of colors. But if I had just packed like black and white, I would have felt bored all week.
Corinne
Okay, I’m going to ask the next question.
My 10 year old daughter just began ordering Diet Coke without any discussion. Should I bring it up?
Virginia
I’m drinking a Diet Coke as I think about your question, just so we’re clear. I’m almost never not drinking a Diet Coke, at least if it’s before 2pm. After that, I have to get careful about caffeine. Anyway.
I would bring it up in a very casual, curious, non-concerned way. Just like, “I saw you switched to Diet Coke. Do you like the taste better?” You know, just very, like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” Or even just like, “I didn’t know you were a Diet Coke fan,” and just leave it at that. It could absolutely just be a flavor preference. A lot of us think it tastes better than regular Coke. But if she always drank regular soda and she suddenly switched to Diet Coke and you’re noticing any other warning signs about body concern? I think it’s something to be curious about.
What do you think?
Corinne
Yeah, I think I agree. I would probably try to ask something. It seems like it could be a tough thing to ask in a neutral way, because you sound like you might be concerned.
Virginia
I think, “oh, I didn’t know you were a Diet Coke fan.” Maybe practicing it in your room for a little bit, till you find a really neutral tone with it.
Corinne
I think you could be like, “Oh, I tried Diet Coke and I like the regular better.”
Virginia
If that’s your truth, but if it’s not your truth—I can’t pretend.
If this is stuff you have at home, you could be out of the Diet Coke one day and see if she’ll still drink regular Coke. And if not, be curious about that. Just to feel it out. I’m here for it totally just being a preference, but I acknowledge that an abrupt shift would be something worthy of some follow up.
Okay, this person says,
How do you find purposeful and joyful movement that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg?
I’ve never enjoyed sports or any exercise really. There was a time when I enjoyed AquaZumba and Rowhouse. But cost is always a factor. Have you seen gym prices lately? I do enjoy a good walk with a podcast or audiobook but I live in Florida where nine months out of the year, it’s gross as hell. So when I do drag myself out for a walk, it feels like exercise and something I have to do and rooted in diet culture instead of something enjoyable.
Corinne
I have a lot of thoughts about this one. If you’re not enjoying exercise, I would try to pair it with something you do enjoy and do your exercising with a friend or something. Listening to an audiobook is a great tip.
As far as affordable stuff goes, I don’t know about Florida, but where I live there are public pools that are pretty cheap and you can get a season pass to them. I know they offer classes like aqua aerobics or whatever. Or you can just go and paddle around or go and walk back and forth in the lanes which is fun, and a nice way to cool down.
Virginia
That does sound nice, especially in Florida.
Corinne
A lot of YMCAs are not super expensive and have subsidized memberships.
Virginia
I’m also aware I don’t know what affordable means to this person. My exercise budget is my Lauren Leavell membership, which I think is $40 or $50 a month for unlimited online workouts that I can do at home. I did have to buy weights, but that was a one time expense. That feels super affordable to me because I do it twice a week, so the per class cost is pretty low. But maybe that’s not in this person’s budget, which I totally respect.
Corinne
I pay for a gym membership and I pay for coaching. The coaching is definitely not cheap, but the gym membership is around $30 a month.
Virginia
So that’s even cheaper.
Corinne
Also, if you’re somewhere hot, I would probably try to find a cheap gym membership and a friend to go with so that it’s more fun and also not super expensive.
Also, if that’s an area that you’re from, sometimes your college will let you have a cheaper membership as an alum or some people’s workplaces have gyms or my health insurance will cover certain gym memberships. So those are things to look into.
Virginia
I also want to say: If you don’t enjoy sports or exercise, you don’t have to do sports or exercise. You can just decide this isn’t something you do, and maybe your movement is cleaning your house, or walks on the few cool days you have, or gardening, or a dance party in your kitchen with your kids.
I was just listening to an NPR thing where they did a study on the health benefits of having people stand up and move around for five minutes every hour, two hours or something. And part of me is like, that would get annoying really fast. I don’t want to have to remember to get up from my desk for five minutes every hour. And part of me is like: If I was in a season of life where formal exercise wasn’t feeling good, maybe that’s something to play with. And maybe you don’t do it every hour, but you do it two or three times a day—and that’s 15 minutes of movement you didn’t have otherwise, and that might feel great.
Corinne
I just think if you’re like, this is exercise and I have to do it for X, Y, &Z health reason, you’re never going to be consistent about it. If you have a buddy and you like seeing your buddy or you’re like, “This is my time that I watch Real Housewives,” then it can become more of a routine. I think we’re probably both people that have found that exercise does, unfortunately, kind of make you feel good. It’s the worst. I never want to give anyone that advice, but it really does help me.
Virginia
It’s enraging. It’s enraging and I don’t like it. But yes, my grumpy little walks are always a mood booster.
Corinne
I’m also sure that part of the reason I’m consistent with my training is because I pay a coach, and I don’t want to be paying this person this money and not be using it.
Virginia
Assuming you have the budget, that is another way to think about it. Will spending the money make you more again—not do something you don’t you truly don’t like and you’re dragging yourself there and it’s miserable—but will that be an extra motivator to make sure you get value out of that? Sometimes that is a way of reframing the budget, I guess. That doesn’t work for everyone. I have certainly paid for gym memberships that I didn’t use and it was just wasteful.
Do you have any fun end of day mocktails or non alcoholic beverage recs? I’m tired of seltzer and I don’t want alcohol every day.
Corinne
I love this question. Both of us are not huge drinkers and something we have been discussing a lot on this trip is electrolytes, because I love electrolyte drinks.
Virginia
That is not a fun end of the day beverage!
Corinne
I feel differently. Okay, this is not my only recommendation, but I just want to say I like electrolyte drinks. And I want to say that when I was recently at a very good, popular beloved bar, in a good food city, and I asked for a non-alcoholic drink. And they made me a salty coconut lime drink and it was so delicious and had like a whiff of an electrolyte drink, with the salt. It was sweet and salty. It was so good.
Virginia
Okay, people have to understand my first day here, the altitude was getting to me and I was super nauseous. And Corinne was like, “electrolytes electrolytes, electrolytes.” So she gave me one of her little tabs and I put it in my water bottle and I almost vomited in her car immediately. I did drink the entire thing last night and I do feel better. But it was a journey. It was very difficult for me.
Corinne
And I apologize for that.
Virginia
No, you were right. Medicinally, it was useful, but I cannot describe that as fun.
Corinne
Okay, it’s not a mocktail, but I like coconut water, and I like cucumber lime Gatorade, and sometimes I will drink those. However, here’s my real recommendation. I like to fill up a quart jar with a lot of ice and then I like to fill it halfway with limeade and then fill it the rest of the way with flavored seltzer.
Virginia
Okay, that sounds delightful.
Corinne
It’s delightful. It’s very refreshing and delicious.
Virginia
I’m on board with that.
Corinne
I like to use peach pear Lacroix.
Virginia
Okay, that I’m into. I have two recs.
One, I know you’re tired of seltzer. But if you have a Walmart near you, I want you to get the Clear American Mandarin Orange seltzer. It is the most delicious of all seltzers. The reason it is the most delicious is because it is flavored with aspartame, which is possibly my electrolytes. But I am telling you, the number of people who come to my house and have this seltzer and then go and buy it because they’re like, What is this delicious seltzer?
It’s a little sweeter than your average seltzer, but it’s still very refreshing. I don’t like a non-refreshing, overly complicated seltzer flavor. I buy so much of it and drink so much of it. That is the most delicious seltzer, so that would be my rec if you’re like I think I’m tired of seltzer but you’ve been drinking Buble or Lacroix or all these like hipster-y fancy brands. You need Walmart Clear American.
Corinne
I want to recommend a seltzer flavor, too, which is Whole Foods brand has a ginger flavored Seltzer which I think is really good.
Virginia
That sounds like something I would have appreciated drinking yesterday instead of the electrolytes.
Corinne
We should have gotten ginger seltzer instead of grapefruit when we went to Whole Foods!
Virginia
Then my one other rec for non-alcoholic beverages is I’ve been getting into the TÖST non-alcoholic rosé. It’s elderflower and something. I really enjoy that with some ice cubes and maybe a little seltzer if you want it to be fizzy, but the main flavor will be the non-alcoholic rosé situation. I really like that. And it’s pink and feels fancy.
Corinne
Yeah, I’m really curious about a lot of those non alcoholic spirit things like Ghia. So if anyone really likes those, tell us.
Virginia
I have tried a few here and there, but I haven’t found any that I’m like in love with.
Corinne
Same. Okay,
What are your favorite cookies, please?
Virginia
I mean, I’m an old school chocolate chip fan. I usually make the recipe on the back of the Ghiradelli semi sweet chocolate chip bag. My kids consider that the only chocolate chip cookie and when I do try to branch out they generally won’t eat them.
I also will give a shout out to my cousin Kate who runs a gluten-free bakery in Philadelphia called A Summers Treat and they make a Nutella-stuffed gluten-free chocolate chunk cookie. And look, I am very picky about the gluten-free concept. I am glad that they are making this available for their fellow Celiac folks, obviously. We need that option, but I will be the first one to say, “This needed gluten to taste good.” But these cookies were so insanely delicious. They’re not shipping yet, but if you’re in Philadelphia, get on that cookie situation.
Corinne
That sounds really good. I’m also a chocolate chip cookie fan and my recipe of choice is BA’s best chocolate chip cookie. It’s made with brown butter. The thing I like about that is then you don’t have to cream the butter. It’s like kind of faster. You brown part of the butter and then you add in cold butter to cool it down. Then you can just mix it all together. I like to make it and I’ll like bake a few cookies and then I scoop the rest and put them in the fridge or the freezer and bake them as I want them. I brought some of those cookies for us, so don’t forget to eat them.
Virginia
Okay, I absolutely will not forget. We will finish the episode first, but we will not forget about that.
Alright, last question we’re going to answer today.
What do you like most about each other?
This is a really sweet one.
Corinne
This is a hard one to answer! It’s hard to pick one thing you like about someone. That’s a lot of pressure.
Virginia
I assume it’s my rigid beliefs about pants and shoes.
Corinne
I mean, I don’t even know where to start. Virginia is very smart. Very fun to talk to. Very fun to hang out with. Has a good attitude. I was really impressed with the way you handled your altitude sickness because I think I would have just thrown myself on the ground and gone no further.
Virginia
That’s hilarious. Well, you said you were more of a puker than I am.
I will also say Corinne is very smart. Very fun to talk to. She’s a very good listener. What else do I want to say? I mean it is a hard question.
Corinne
It’s a hard question.
Virginia
She’s introduced me to breakfast burritos, so that’s pretty important.
We’re recording this episode the week I published the piece about 5 Problems I Solved With Shopping, which has generated so much discussion on the newsletter and a lot of both positive and negative feedback. Corinne is really good at nuanced conversations and holding space for multiple perspectives. So as the comments have been coming in and I have been processing and thinking about, like, did I screw this up? Did we make space for this? You’re a very good sounding board. You’ll be supportive and have my back, but also make space for the all the perspectives.
Corinne
Well, that’s really nice.
Virginia
Do you have anything else you want to say about me?
Corinne
Is there anything we’re surprised by about meeting in real life?
Virginia
Oh, that’s a good question.
Corinne
I wish I had an answer but I don’t think I do.
Virginia
I’m not surprised, but it is surprising that it feels like we’ve hung out a lot before.
Corinne
That’s true. It didn’t feel like an awkward first meeting.
Virginia
I mean, I’m not going to share everything we talked about off mic, but I will say—
Corinne
Please don’t.
Virginia
We immediately got into the gossip, people. Like 5th date level conversations. We’ve gone down some rabbit holes.
Corinne
That’s really true.
Virginia
We did not warm up to talking about stuff.
Corinne
I think because there’s a lot of things we like about each other, it feels comfortable to talk about some more personal stuff. No one ask us about it. No follow up questions.
Virginia
There’s no drama to be discussed.
Corinne
Nope, nope, nope.
Butter
Virginia
I’m going to talk about the transformative spiritual experience of going to the Georgia O’Keeffe house. I will start that with the caveat that I do know, and Corinne explained further to me, that there’s some discourse around Georgia O’Keeffe being a problematic white lady who tried to claim a lot of New Mexico for herself. So yeah, fully aware of that and acknowledging the complicatedness of it all.
But also—the house is magical and beautiful. The views are exquisite. Her aesthetic is so beautiful. And just, the absolute icon energy of this woman who after her husband died, was like, I’m going to spend years building this house in a very rural part of New Mexico where I’ve never lived before and figure out how to live here alone as a woman at a time when that was not particularly done. And then went on to be creating amazing art well into her 80s and 90s, after losing much of her vision. And she was possibly having an affair with her 50 year younger assistant.
Corinne
Nobody knows.
Virginia
I mean, maybe particularly for where I am in my life right now as a newly single person and looking at the expanse of that—there just felt like so much possibility. You think about her story and you realize, we place such an emphasis on youth in this culture on checking certain boxes in this culture. So to see someone who was continuing to do new things in her 80s is so inspiring. She’s like, “It’s time for me to learn ceramics.” I hope when I’m in my 80s I am still that invigorated and passionate about not necessarily work, but curious about the world.
Corinne
Her house is really special and if you’re out here, I would definitely recommend checking it out.
Virginia
I’m going to be thinking about it for a long time. What about you?
Corinne
My butter is Jewelry TikTok. I don’t know how this happened, but somehow I have started getting served TikToks about jewelry and I’m not an ASMR person, but for some reason this JewelryTok stuff just scratches some weird itch that I didn’t even know I had.
I’m now obsessed with looking at gems and charms and there’s just something so tactile about it. They’re pretty and clickety-clackety and they’re golden. They’re precious. It feels like this weird callback to childhood, playing with tiny things. I don’t know. I hardly wear jewelry at all but I’m trying to get into it now because I’m obsessed with mostly this one account. I’m also not a nails person, but I feel like they always have like really nice nails and hands and stuff. But yeah, I’m finding myself weirdly obsessed with JewelryTok. And I feel like I’m not alone. I think I’m starting to see a lot more like fashion and plus size influencer people showing their—I forget what they call it. Neck mess or charm stack or ring sack or something? Anyways, there’s just something very pleasing about it.
Virginia
Do you know it’s possible to have a true phobia of jewelry? That that’s a real thing. A friend of mine has it.
Corinne
The phobia is the feeling of it?
Virginia
I think the feeling of metal or the texture I don’t know. I’ll try to find this piece that my friend wrote about it years ago. (Post-Recording Update: My friend’s essay has vanished from the Internet but here’s a good explainer and here’s a Reddit thread for more.) So just to put it out there if you’re like, “That sounds horrible.” You are not alone. And that’s a valid reaction.
Corinne
I do think part of the appeal is like the tactile-ness. So I could see why some people would not like it.
Virginia
Well, this was a delight. I wish we could record all our episodes in person.
Corinne
I know. It would be fun.
Virginia
Maybe in another future iteration of Burnt Toast.
Corinne
Should we try to arrange our lives so that we can record from hot springs spa resorts every week?
Virginia
That seems like a reasonable use of Extra Butter subscriptions? Everyone join Extra Butter so our hot springs budget can really go up!
Corinne
We just need to start selling million dollar paintings like like Georgia.
Virginia
Well, life is long, Corinne. That’s what we learned.
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Today’s Indulgence Gospel was produced and hosted by Corinne and Virginia. Follow us on Instagram: @v_solesmith and @selltradeplus.
The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.
Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.
Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.
Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti diet journalism.