159. Just Say Yes - Pam Moran and Ira David Socol

Peter Gray, professor of psychology and neuroscience at Boston College, wrote the following in the Washington Post. “I began to look at research, which showed and documented that beginning as early as the 1960s until now, there has been a continuous, gradual but huge increase in anxiety, depression, and, most tragically, suicide among school-aged children and teens. Over that period of time, children have also been less and less free to do the things that make them happy and build the kind of character traits — of confidence, of internal locus of control, of agency — that allow them to feel like ‘the world is not too scary, because I can handle what life throws at me.’ This kind of attitude requires independent activity to develop, and we have been offering less and less of that activity.” 

Peter Gray’s powerful words are the perfect way to introduce today’s conversation with Pam Moran and Ira David Socol, two educators who have spent their careers pushing on a simple idea that feels obvious once you say it out loud: school should help young people find their voice, build real agency, and guide them as they learn how to influence their world and shape their futures. 

Pam led Albemarle County Public Schools in Virginia from 2006 to 2018, a long run in superintendent years, and she was named Virginia Superintendent of the Year by the Virginia Association of School Superintendents.

Ira has lived an unusually wide-angle life in service, including work in New York City public safety and decades in public education as a technology and innovation leader, with a deep focus on Universal Design for Learning and environments that work for every kid. 

Together, they have written and edited books that refuse to treat school as a neutral machine. In Timeless Learning, with co author Chad Ratliff, they argue that we should stop mistaking “great teaching” for learning, and instead redesign learning experiences so kids have choices, purpose, and time to do work that matters. In Designed to Fail, Ira makes the tougher claim; a lot of what we call school was built to sort, to rank, and to protect comfort for adults and advantage for some kids. 

And in their newest book, an edited volume titled Real Learning, Real Accomplishment: Schools that Work for Kids, Pam and Ira gather stories from educators across the country who are moving from compliance to mastery, not by chasing one more initiative, but by changing the ecosystem, the expectations, the schedules, the spaces, the assessment, and the relationships that shape what kids actually experience. 

So that is where we are headed. We are going to talk about student voice as more than a slogan. We are going to talk about what it means to trust kids, and what it costs when we do not. And we are going to keep pulling the conversation back to the practical question that sits under everything they do: How do we design and create systems of learning that put the learning in the hands of the young learners, with the adults on the side as coaches, mentors, guides and sponsors? One of the answers you will hear in the next hour is that we adults must, must, must do this design and development with the learners. We must treat them as co-creators and co-designers. Truly, we must Just Say Yes.

If you have thoughts or insights on this episode email me at joshreppunproductions@gmail.com. Our audio engineer is the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.