The nature of evil PART ONE | Mike Figgis, Robert Eaglestone, Joanna Kavenna
Jul 30, 2024
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In this thought-provoking discussion, filmmaker Mike Figgis, known for his explorations of complex themes, joins philosopher Robert Eaglestone to dissect the nature of evil in contemporary society. They tackle whether art has the power to vanquish evil and how a secular culture impacts our understanding of morality. The conversation delves into the banality of evil, illustrating how everyday life intertwines with moral issues, and challenges how artists can effectively portray these subtleties in their work.
The podcast examines how contemporary notions of evil are shaped by everyday systemic actions rather than traditional villainous behaviors.
Panelists emphasize the vital role of the arts in highlighting the complexities of human behavior and the mundanity of evil.
Deep dives
The Nature of Evil in Contemporary Society
The podcast discusses the relevance of the concept of evil in modern secular society, questioning whether traditional notions of good and evil still hold meaning. With the decline of grand religious interpretations, the panel reflects on how evil is perceived today, suggesting it may be considered outdated. The discussion introduces various perspectives on evil, including those of philosopher Plato and Immanuel Kant, who have framed evil as either the absence of good or as a radical force within the world. This sets the stage for an exploration of a new understanding of evil, particularly in light of Hannah Arendt’s concept of the 'banality of evil,' which describes evil as a systemic, day-to-day occurrence rather than an extraordinary phenomenon.
The Banality of Evil
Hannah Arendt’s notion of the 'banality of evil' is a central theme, suggesting that rather than being a radical force, evil manifests in mundane, everyday actions that often go unnoticed. This perspective shifts the focus from overtly villainous actions to the systemic, often trivial decisions that uphold harmful structures within society. The panelists discuss how this form of evil is pervasive, using modern examples such as the implications of buying consumer products like iPhones, which are associated with labor exploitation in totalitarian regimes. They convey that recognizing the humanity of individuals involved in these systems is crucial to understanding the nature of contemporary evils.
Representation of Evil in the Arts
The conversation also delves into how the arts represent evil, emphasizing the challenge of illustrating the banality of evil in a compelling way. Traditional narratives often personify evil through distinct characters, whereas contemporary evil is often dull and arises from collective societal actions, rendering it difficult to dramatize. Panelists point out that great literature and drama often focus on flawed characters and explore the complexities of human behavior rather than present evil as merely monstrous. The discussion posits that the arts play a vital role in highlighting these uncomfortable realities, prompting audiences to confront the often mundane nature of evil in our lives.
In a largely secular culture what are we to make of evil? In a rational and relativistic climate without superstitutions, have we lost a cultural space in which to engage with evil? Should we abandon the notion altogether as anachronistic or is it essential in the fight for a better world?
Filmmaker Mike Figgis, Artistic Director of the Lyric Hammersmith, Sean Holmes, and philosopher Robert Eaglestone explore the nature of evil and our response to it.
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