This is a conversation with Morgan Govin and Molly Hagan. This is how Morgan introduces herself on her website: "I spent five years addicted to heroin and four years incarcerated as a direct result of my addiction. I lost my mom and four close friends to  overdose. I found a system of injustice within the US justice system. Now, I work to change the systems that harmed us. I strive for safer, healthier communities." Morgan is also JSTOR Daily’s engagement editor for the American Prison Newspapers collection.

Molly is a writer, journalist and photographer whose piece "The Meaning of Time in The Hour Glass" kickstarted this conversation. 

We also talked about Morgan's experience, about the US' brutal carceral system, and the meaning of time in prison. We also talked about logics of scarcity and what we lose, wherever we live, when incarcerated people are rendered invisible.

----

Mentions and Book Recommendations:

• Episode with Shareah Taleghani on Syrian Prison Literature and the Poetics of Human Rights
• Episode with Kate Zen on Basebuilding, Sex Workers' Rights and Mutual Aid

Molly:

• A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster by Rebecca Solnit
• The Dead Are Arising: the Life of Malcolm X by Les Payne and Tamara Payne
• Solitary: A Biography by Albert Woodfox

Morgan:

• Corrections in Ink: A Memoir by Keri Blakinger
• Until We Reckon: Violence, Mass Incarceration, and a Road to Repair by Danielle Sered
• You're Wrong About podcast

----

You can support The Fire These Times on patreon.com/firethesetimes with a monthly or yearly donation and get a lot of perks including early access, exclusive videos, monthly hangouts, access to the book club, merch and more.

Host: Joey Ayoub
Producer: Joey Ayoub
Music: Rap and Revenge
Main theme design: Wenyi Geng
Sound editor: Ibrahim Youssef
Episode design: Joey Ayoub