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Pete Wehner: What Happens When Morality Leaves U.S. Foreign Policy? Venezuela, Greenland, and "Might Makes Right"

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Jan 15, 2026

Guest

Pete Wehner

Pete Wehner, a columnist and former official in the Reagan and Bush administrations, dives into the moral erosion within U.S. foreign policy under Trump. He discusses alarming shifts towards a 'might makes right' mentality, contrasting it with past moral frameworks. Wehner highlights the critical role of history and civic education in moral judgment, critiques the current disconnection of Christian ethics from policy, and emphasizes the need for resistance against authoritarianism. He calls for a revival of human dignity and moral imagination in political discourse.

54:43

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Transcript

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Episode notes

question_answer

ANECDOTE

News Blackout Reveals A Different World

Curtis described returning from a news blackout in Taiwan and Japan to find world events shockingly different.
That anecdote frames the conversation about rapid changes in U.S. foreign policy.

insights

INSIGHT

Might Makes Right As A New Foreign Policy

Donald Trump embraces a 'will to power' foreign policy where "might makes right."
Pete Wehner argues this inverts America's prior moral aspiration in foreign affairs.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

College Students Missing Modern History

Curtis visited Chiang Kai-shek museums with college-aged relatives who lacked modern historical context.
The story illustrates weak civic education and historical awareness among young, well-educated Americans.

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Recent International Events and Context

02:05 • 2min

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Why 'Everything Is Different' Now

04:25 • 4min

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Might Makes Right vs. Moral Restraint

08:50 • 3min

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Historical Memory and Civic Education

11:36 • 3min

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PEPFAR: A Moral High Watermark

14:29 • 4min

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Christian Convictions Shaping Policy

18:24 • 8min

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Demagogues, Gaslighting, and Moral Erosion

26:37 • 4min

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Cynicism About Moral Foreign Policy

30:17 • 7min

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Humility, Human Dignity, and Christian Ethics

Venezuela, Greenland, and Moral Consequences

40:20 • 5min

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Beauty, Creation, and Moral Imagination

45:16 • 1min

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What Can Christians Do?

46:35 • 5min

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Live Within the Truth, Not the Lie

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Written in 1978, 'The Power of the Powerless' is a seminal essay by Václav Havel that critiques the post-totalitarian systems of Eastern Europe. The essay, which was circulated in samizdat form, argues that individuals living within such systems must 'live in truth' to challenge the pervasive lies and ideological control of the state. Havel uses the example of a greengrocer displaying a communist slogan to illustrate the mechanisms of compliance and the potential for resistance. The book, edited by John Keane, includes responses from various contributors and provides a broad spectrum of democratic opinions on freedom, power, and civil liberty under totalitarian conditions.

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Mere Christianity

C.S. Lewis

In 'Mere Christianity', C.S. Lewis argues for the existence of God and defends Christian theology. The book is divided into four parts: the first argues for the existence of God based on the 'law of human nature'; the second defends Christian theology, including the 'Liar, lunatic, or Lord' trilemma regarding Jesus Christ; the third explores Christian ethics, including the cardinal and theological virtues; and the fourth discusses the Christian conception of God, particularly the Holy Trinity. Lewis also addresses topics such as free will, morality, sexual ethics, and the institution of marriage. The book is known for its clear and logical presentation of Christian apologetics and has been praised for its straightforward and humorous writing style.

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One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich

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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" offers a stark and unforgettable portrayal of life in a Soviet labor camp. Through the eyes of Ivan Denisovich Shukhov, the novel depicts the harsh realities of daily existence under Stalinist oppression. Solzhenitsyn's masterful use of detail creates a vivid and immersive experience, allowing readers to feel the cold, the hunger, and the constant threat of violence. The novel's power lies in its unflinching honesty and its ability to evoke empathy for the suffering of its protagonist. Despite the grim setting, the story also reveals the resilience of the human spirit and the capacity for hope even in the face of unimaginable hardship.

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Dictatorships and double standards

Jeane J Kirkpatrick

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Twilight of Democracy

The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism

Anne Applebaum

In 'Twilight of Democracy,' Anne Applebaum explores the rise of authoritarianism and nationalism in modern democracies. She argues that political systems with radically simple beliefs are inherently appealing, especially when they benefit loyal adherents to the exclusion of others. The book examines how despotic leaders rely on allies, bureaucrats, and media figures to support their rule and how modern authoritarian parties offer new paths to wealth and power. Applebaum draws on historical examples, including Stalinist central Europe and Nazi Germany, and investigates contemporary phenomena such as conspiracy theories, social media, and nostalgia. She warns that democracies are fragile and their survival depends on daily choices made by both elites and ordinary people.

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Anger, Fear, Domination

Dark Passions and the Power of Political Speech

William Galston

Can Christian Americans Resist Authoritarian Drift?

Pete Wehner—The Atlantic columnist and former Reagan and Bush administration staff member—joins host Curtis Chang to ask the uncomfortable question: in Trump's America, is morality a loser that's been replaced by the "law of the jungle"—especially in U.S. foreign policy? From Venezuela to a looming Greenland/Denmark showdown that could fracture NATO, Wehner argues we're watching "might makes right" go mainstream. The antidote, he says, isn't vibes—it's resistance: stop living within the lie and start living within the truth.

00:04:23 - Explaining the U.S. Foreign Policy Shift

00:06:36 - What Is America's Moral Aspiration in Foreign Policy?

00:07:57 - Trump's "Will to Power" Ethic

00:11:34 - Do We Have Historical Amnesia?

00:16:36 - Contrasting Trump and PEPFAR

00:19:09 - The Disconnect Between Christian Identity and Policy

00:26:34 - Demagogues and Moral Erosion

00:34:19 - President Trump's Unique Amorality

00:37:10 - Primacy of Human Dignity and Christian Ethics

00:41:01 - Venezuela, Greenland, and Moral Implications

00:44:02 - The Value of Beauty and Creation

00:47:14 - What Are the Limits and Possibilities of Action

More about the Religious Landscape Study pewresearch.org/rls

Mentioned In This Episode:

Pete Wehner's article Trump's Folly
More about PEPFAR (President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief)
Anne Applebaum's Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism
William Galston's Anger, Fear, Domination: Dark Passions and the Power of Political Speech
Jeane Kirkpatrick's essay Dictatorships and Double Standards (Commentary)
Václav Havel's The Power of the Powerless
David Brooks' article America Needs a Mass Movement—Now Without one, America may sink into autocracy for decades (The Atlantic)
C.S. Lewis' idea of active obedience is found in Mere Christianity
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich"
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's Nobel Prize Lecture (literature, 1970)