Erwin and Aaron McManus jump into a wide-ranging conversation that first lands on chess, sparked from their recent viewing of the Netflix series The Queen's Gambit, and discuss their personal histories with the game and how it can be used as a great metaphor for dealing with personal growth and struggles. 

Talking about personal struggles leads the father-son duo to discuss the general standards held for pastors and society's obsession with tearing down anyone who makes mistakes—how the mistake of one can also quickly escalate into the failure of all. The self-destructive tendency of all humans doesn't omit pastors, as Erwin and Aaron point out, and they discuss how important the people in our lives are to helping us survive those tendencies.

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