Rutger Bregman, a historian and celebrated author, shifts the conversation on human nature from selfishness to optimism. He explores how environments can enhance our kindness and cooperation. The discussion dives into Universal Basic Income, contrasting mixed results in the US with successes in other countries. Bregman emphasizes the importance of pursuing work that meaningfully impacts society and harnessing moral ambition to create global change. He also highlights the need for better storytelling to align narratives with the truth about humanity.
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insights INSIGHT
Reevaluating Human Nature
Rutger Bregman changed his mind from Hobbesian pessimism to a more hopeful view of human nature.
New evidence from anthropology challenges the "veneer theory" of humans being fundamentally selfish.
insights INSIGHT
Humans as Social Beings
Human nature is deeply social and heavily influenced by context and environment.
Moral character is shaped more by social surroundings than by genetics.
insights INSIGHT
Survival of the Friendliest
Humans evolved friendly traits because kindness benefits survival.
Violence is psychologically harmful, suggesting deep human resistance to cruelty.
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In this book, Steven Pinker presents a detailed argument that violence has significantly decreased over the course of human history. He uses extensive data and statistical analysis to demonstrate this decline in various domains, including military conflict, homicide, genocide, torture, and the treatment of children, homosexuals, animals, and racial and ethnic minorities. Pinker identifies four key human motivations – empathy, self-control, the moral sense, and reason – as the 'better angels' that have oriented humans away from violence and towards cooperation and altruism. He also discusses historical forces such as the rise of the state (which he terms 'Leviathan'), the spread of commerce, the growth of feminist values, and the expansion of cosmopolitanism, which have contributed to this decline in violence[1][4][5].
Bullshit Jobs
A Theory
David Graeber
In 'Bullshit Jobs: A Theory', David Graeber argues that a significant portion of jobs in modern society are meaningless and contribute little to no value. He categorizes these jobs into five types: flunkies, goons, duct tapers, box tickers, and taskmasters. Graeber contends that these jobs are not only inefficient but also psychologically destructive, leading to chronic misery and social divisions. The book is based on his 2013 essay 'On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs' and includes testimonials from workers who feel their jobs are pointless. Graeber suggests solutions such as unions and universal basic income to address the issue of meaningless work.
Utopia for Realists
The Case for a Universal Basic Income, Open Borders, and a 15-hour Workweek
Rutger Bregman
In *Utopia for Realists*, Rutger Bregman argues that visionary ideas, often considered utopian, can be implemented to create a more equitable and productive society. He advocates for a universal basic income, a shorter workweek of 15 hours, and open borders. Bregman supports these ideas with historical examples, such as Richard Nixon's proposed basic income and the successful Mincome project in Canada, as well as current data and academic studies. The book challenges conventional wisdom and encourages readers to dream big and strive for a better future[1][2][3].
Humankind
A Hopeful History
Rutger Bregman
Humankind: A Hopeful History challenges the idea that humans are inherently selfish by presenting evidence of our altruistic behavior throughout history. The book takes a multi-disciplinary approach, drawing from history, economics, psychology, biology, anthropology, and archaeology to argue that humans are more peaceful and friendly than commonly believed. Bregman sides with Jean-Jacques Rousseau's view of human nature in the state of nature debate, opposing Thomas Hobbes' more pessimistic outlook. He also discusses the concept of 'domestication syndrome' and how humans may have self-domesticated, leading to a more cooperative and empathetic species.
Historian and bestselling author Rutger Bregman joins us to discuss his dramatic shift from believing humans are fundamentally selfish to championing a radically optimistic view of human nature. We chart his evolution across three books: "Humankind," which establishes his optimistic perspective; "Utopia for Realists," advocating bold policies based on our potential for good; and his latest, "Moral Ambition," which calls on people to stop wasting their careers and start transforming the world for the better.
We strongly recommend you read Rutger's new book, Moral Ambition. It's a certified banger.
Thoughts? Feedback? Guest recommendations? Email us at hello@changedmymindpod.comor fill out this form.
About the hosts:
Thom and Aidan left boring, stable careers in law and tech to found FarmKind, a donation platform that helps people be a part of the solution to factory farming — regardless of their diet. While the podcast isn’t about animal welfare, it’s inspired by their daily experience grappling with a fundamental question: Why do people so rarely change their minds, even when confronted with compelling evidence? This curiosity drives their exploration of intellectual humility and the complex factors that enable (or prevent) meaningful belief change.
Changed My Mind 
