Beers such as Oerbier, Arabier, and Stille Nacht may not be as familiar to today’s avid beer consumer, but for decades these unusual strong ales have been staples on the menus and cellars of more adventurous beer bars around the world. De Dolle Brouwers got its start in 1980, among the vanguard in a new wave of Belgian brewers who rejected the consolidation and cynical corner-cutting that had come to define the industry there. Cofounder Kris Herteleer was committed to a more natural approach to brewing, using real malt, whole hops, healthy yeast, spring water, and the highly manual mechanical tools of the decades-old brewhouse they purchased in the village of Esen, just outside of Diksmuide, in West Flanders.

Oerbier was, and still is, hard to classify. It limns the space between an overtly acid-forward oud bruin and a strong Belgian dark ale, borrowing from both where and when it needs to. Yet this ambiguity fits Herteleer’s approach; De Dolle isn’t concerned at all about adherence to styles. Herteleer would much rather get you asking questions than provide you with easy answers.

In this episode, recorded at the brewery as we sipped beers from their cellar more than 20 years old, Herteleer discusses:

• switching from Rodenbach yeast in 2000, and the five-year process of getting Oerbier back to its intended expression
• the prevalence of coloring and backsweeting in 1970s and ’80s Belgian ale
• balancing acidity and sweetness in higher-gravity beer
• using a coolship, Baudelot cooler, open fermentors, a Lactobacillus reactor, and French wine barrels to produce complex, flavorful beer that’s more than just “sour”
• using relatively high IBUs to limit Lactobacillus and Pediococcus activity in mixed-culture fermentation
• avoiding the crutch of spices in Belgian ale
• barrel-aging in wine barrels rather than spirits barrels, to avoid “dead” barrels

And more.

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