Navigating LinkedIn's Algorithm Changes

In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Dwell Time, Slop Lists, BlueSky, Mini App Blogs and more!

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Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite

MarketingProfs post show – Generative AI for Analytics

The slop list and how to do it better

AJ Wilcox on LinkedIn Ads

7:55 – 8:39 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

From the Floor: Tango Hubspot integration, and Mobly

Chris on the impact of LinkedIn dwell time – Free Guide to Create Better LinkedIn Posts

BlueSky adding a million a day – Follow John and Chris

Why you shouldn’t delete your Twitter account

19:08 – 20:40 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Yet another December filled with crappy predictions of trends

Mini App Blogs

John Blue says the Sneaky Marketing Award should be ongoing

48 Laws of Power, Algebra of Wealth

Year end wrap up

Join us over in AfM

Sign up for the text line: 1-617-812-5494

Join John, Chris and Katie on threads, or on LinkedIn: Chris, John, and Katie

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Our theme song is Mellow G by Fonkmasters

Transcript

John Wall – 00:00

Today’s episode is brought to you by NetSuite and Wix Studio.

Christopher S. Penn – 00:10

This is Marketing Over Coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.

John Wall – 00:18

Good morning. Welcome to Marketing Over Coffee. I’m John Wall.

Christopher S. Penn – 00:21

I’m Christopher Penn.

John Wall – 00:22

And we are back from marketing. Prof B2B in Boston was last week. That took up a huge chunk of time for us. The big news is that they had a sellout. You know, they had pretty much record crowd and there was a lot going on the floor. But you and Katie were doing a pre-show session even. How did all that go?

Christopher S. Penn – 00:38

Yeah, so we did a full-day workshop on generative AI and analytics—how do you do B2B marketing measurement with today’s AI tools? It was a lot of fun. I was pretty shocked. So one of the things we started out with was saying, hey, you know how many people here feel comfortable using a tool like ChatGPT? And out of a room of 25 people, five raised their hand. I’m like, what’s happening here? And these are—these were not people that were in like total legacy industries, you know, the industrial ball bearing industry or whatever. Like, these were your average marketers. So that was really surprising, but we got through all of the material we have. We’re going to actually be sending out follow-ups to the folks who attended the workshop of stuff like the screencast of everything that we did.

Christopher S. Penn – 01:25

Because a lot of the prompts that we use are very complex prompts and they were not in the slides because there’s no point in having a slide that’s got like 800 words, so we’re sending out all that stuff as well. Yeah.

John Wall – 01:40

And then how about just for an overview, what kind of stuff did they walk away with then? Because obviously these were people that are not using it regularly as part of their job, especially the bottom fifth. What were they excited about as far as what they got out of the day?

Christopher S. Penn – 01:54

The big thing was, here’s how you take all your data that you have from all the different systems, pour it like a bucket of water into a generative AI model that can handle that much data, and say, “Build me my customer journey map.” There’s a priming process to develop the framework. Say, “Build me my customer journey map.” And it will spit it out and say, “Hey, here’s where your data goes. Here’s your customer journey map. Here’s how people think about you. Oh, by the way, here’s where you’re weak.” And then from there you ask it, you say to it, “Okay, great, now build me a strategy for fixing the spot in the journey where things are going wrong.” And then it does that. And then say, “Now build me some tactics for how I execute the strategy.”

Christopher S. Penn – 02:33

And then say, “Okay, well, I don’t know how to do this particular tactic.” Say, “Great, build me an execution plan for how to do this. Show me some measurement strategies.” And it was really fascinating. So for the session, because we’re having some internet issues and Google was doing all sorts of crazy stuff on the back end, we ended up using Anthropic’s Claude for the workshop, and it does visualizations. Pretty not bad. I mean, they’re not great, but they’re not bad. They’re interpretable. And so folks who were in the workshop essentially walked away with a structure, a system to take all the data that they’re frankly not using or not using well, have the machine process at all, and then say, “Here’s what you need to do to make your marketing better.”

Christopher S. Penn – 03:18

Which is a huge change from our previous workshops because in our previous workshops we taught measurement. We’ve been teaching measurement for, you know, eight years now. But what’s different is that previous workshops were like, okay, now you’ve got your measurement, now go do something about it. And everyone’s like, well, I got my measurement. I made a binder of measurement and it sits there now. With generative AI, you can say, “Now give me my 90-day plan because I need to fix this stuff. I don’t know where to start. It’s too much. It’s overwhelming. Help me prioritize. Help me build my plan.” Great, I’m going to go do my plan.

John Wall – 03:49

That was one theme that ran through the whole show too. In the other sessions that I went like, Andy Crestodina had a lot of stuff as far as like, okay, so here’s what you’re going to—but now boil it down to metrics, where you can report quarterly on what’s going on and where you can go. And that really, management loves that. If you can give them more milestones rather than just talking about playing with the cool technology, you can actually say where this stuff is going to go and where it’s going to run. He also had a funny list of phrases that you don’t want your model to bring back in any copywriting—all of the classic kind of PR buzzwords that everyone hates and doesn’t want to see. So that was one that I stole.

Christopher S. Penn – 04:26

That’s called a slop list. So there are words that are typically overused within a specific context, and people call it slop. I don’t mind that approach. I think that’s a good, basic approach, but there’s a much better way to get AI to do that, and this isn’t written down anywhere. So this is going to be an insider secret for listeners of the podcast. Give it some words that don’t fit in the distribution and I will get very different. So here’s what I mean. If you said, “Let’s write a blog post about the importance of podcasting in marketing, focusing on the Marketing Over Coffee podcast,” and so on and so forth, it would spit out slop, right? It would spit out like, okay, this is a very generic blog post, nothing interesting to see here.

Christopher S. Penn – 05:11

If you said you must also use the words alien, banana, and Wankel rotary engine within the context of the post—three words have nothing to do with B2B marketing or podcasting or Marketing Over Coffee—the model will attempt to follow the instructions. But having those concepts that are not related at all creates a very different set of probabilities inside that makes the writing way more creative, way more interesting, and breaks the slop habit, because it’s like, how do I put alien and Wankel rotary engine into something about B2B marketing? And it basically forced it to do some verbal contortionism to get there. So think about terms that you use, maybe as part of your own habits of speech that are not topic-related, and say you must use these three words that are unusual words, kind of like mad libs in what you write.

Christopher S. Penn – 06:05

And if you do that, I promise you, AI is going to radically change how it writes.

John Wall – 06:09

That’s interesting. So instead of an exclusion list, you’re actually forcing some inclusion. That idea that it drives it to be more creative—that’s interesting. I had not thought of that.

Christopher S. Penn – 06:18

Yep, it’s how—it’s how it decides the probability of words. If you say, “Write a blog post about B2B marketing and the Marketing Over Coffee podcast,” all those words have similar probability distributions, which means you’re going to get very high probability, boring results. But if you have things like banana and toothpaste and, you know, random words that shouldn’t belong, that are not typically seen in that domain, AI has to get a lot more creative to figure out how do I make this work with this concept.

John Wall – 06:50

That sounds good. As far as other sessions, I had a chance to see AJ Wilcox. I always love to hear him talk about LinkedIn ads that he had a bunch of interesting tips. Basically, stuff that, you know, you can cut your budget in half, you know, he actually—they often hit points where they end up completely scaling and they can’t spend the money because they managed to dial it in. So, well, the biggest one for him was bidding strategies. It’s the suggested bids can be 10x or better—what you actually need to, you know, to succeed in the auction. So be sure to be testing that stuff. And yeah, his slides are available for the attendees and I will just have to get him back for another update because it’s just amazing some of the stuff that he’s got.

John Wall – 07:29

And the problem though, he was toe-to-toe against Rand Fishkin, so I did not get a chance to see what Rand has been talking about. At least he’s always publishing and has stuff out there, so we can jump on that. And then, yeah, the last one is I actually did the morning run on Thursday. That was quite a challenge for me to get out the door and get blown away by a bunch of, you know, just short of professional runners. So that was always fun, but glad to get there. Okay. And I’ve got some other stuff, but before we get into that, we just have to take a second. We want to thank Wix Studio for their support of Marketing Over Coffee digital marketers. This one’s for you.

John Wall – 08:03

I’ve got 30 seconds to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. So here are a few things you can do in 30 seconds or less. When you manage projects on Wix, work in sync with your team one canvas, reuse templates, widgets, and sections across sites, create a client kit for seamless handovers, and leverage best-in-class SEO defaults across all your WIX sites. Time’s up, but the list keeps going. Step into Wix Studio to see more. Head on over to wixstudio.com to check it out, and we thank them for their support of the show. I did have a couple of things up from the exhibit floor. There was some stuff that was interesting. Tango, who we’ve done some stuff with, they’re interesting. They do gift cards.

John Wall – 08:48

But the neat thing that they’ve rolled out now is they actually are fully international. So even if you have clients in the UK and the gift cards need to be in Euros at, you know, vendors over there, that is just all baked in and ready to go. And then it integrates into HubSpot too. So that was pretty cool to see them. That’s kind of the first enterprise solution for that kind of stuff. And then the other one was Mobly, which I’m just going to have them on the show, and we’re going to talk about that. But the short version is, man, everything I’ve spent my life doing in lead generation and in badge scanning, they have just completely blown it to bits. We will get them on the show to talk about that. How about for yourself?

John Wall – 09:27

Did you see any vendors or anything that you thought was interesting or classic for you? Did you see anybody that you were like, “Man, these guys should be thrown off the floor?”

Christopher S. Penn – 09:34

Well, here’s the thing. There are like five different content AI vendors on the floor, and I spent some time talking to each of the reps—not, well, not talking, I just listened. I said, “Okay, what’s your pitch?” Listen to the talk. Not one of them could explain why their product was different than any of the other ones, much less the other 14,000 companies in the martech. And they’re like, “Oh, our AI comes up with the best version of the writing and follows your style guide.” And like, yeah, but everyone else does, too. And I was saying this to Katie this morning, said these folks clearly don’t use AI for their own sales training, and B, don’t understand what’s different about their specific technology and why it’s different and better.

Christopher S. Penn – 10:20

What it’s going to do for me as a potential customer, because they all sound exactly the same. Now, I knew one of the companies, I knew under the hood, what they’re doing is somewhat different, but their salespeople could not articulate those differences in any meaningful way other than to say, “Oh, ours is better.” Well, yeah, okay. At what? At how? And so I think one of the big takeaways, particularly for martech vendors in the space right now, is you have got to clearly and explicitly say, here is why we are better. AI is not a differentiator anymore. AI is table minimum. Everyone is expected to have AI. So what is different about the way that you use AI that you can explain, that is clear, that provides actual value and is different?

John Wall – 11:11

Yeah, well, humanity just not moving at the speed of the technology, you know, that’s just all that is. These products are coming together, and yeah, getting your sales staff trained to be able to talk about it is—but, yeah, again, you think they’d be using their own tool to work on their pitch. That doesn’t seem like it. Too much to ask. All right. Yeah. So again, maybe these people will finally put their own tools to use and they can get more stuff done. We also had last week you updated your guide to LinkedIn, which, given everything going, you know, we’re going to talk more about trends, but giving everything across all other social channels. I’m really looking at this year as LinkedIn kind of being the number one stop for where we do things and where stuff gets published.

John Wall – 11:50

What’s going on as far as the algorithm? What kind of stuff have you seen that made it paper worth updating?

Christopher S. Penn – 11:55

Oh, so the big thing was they released a new paper that was explaining how some changes they made in the algorithm. So previously there was this metric they introduced in 2020 called Dwell Time, and they looked at essentially how fast you scroll through the feed and if an update goes by and you didn’t stop to look at it, whatever, like, okay, that update sucks because it didn’t stop the person from scrolling, we’re going to ding it and it’s going to get demoted in the feed. That’s been in the case for four years now. What they’ve changed is they’ve changed on the flip side, on the positive side, now to also say, hey, you stuck around on this post. There’s something different about this post. Let’s bump it up in the feed.

Christopher S. Penn – 12:34

You may have noticed in the, like the last week or two, suddenly you’re starting to see a lot of posts in your LinkedIn feed that are like a week old. Like, why is this post showing up now? And it’s like, oh, because it’s getting dwell time. And so I took that, plus the 25 other papers that we have from LinkedIn about how their feed works and said, okay, let’s remix this with an emphasis on the new changes. You know, replace any data that’s out of date and come up with a more comprehensive guide. But this time through one of the things I created was a checklist. So here is before you hit post, go down this checklist and make sure that your post meets the basic best practices. And so that’s available for free. It’s over on the Trust Insights website.

Christopher S. Penn – 13:17

But I expect, you know, whenever the—whenever engineering releases a big new chunk of something, I’m going to end up updating this guide because there’s so much snake oil and garbage on LinkedIn about how to optimize, you know, the, how to hack the LinkedIn algorithm. You can’t. It’s 12 different AI systems that are working with and against each other to figure out how to place content—12 different algorithms that are working five separate stages, discrete stages. And one of the other things that came out in this post was their ranking algorithm now updates daily—daily. So if you found the secret hack, you might want to test it today if you found it yesterday because the entire model, the model’s weights probably changed overnight and what worked yesterday might not work today.

John Wall – 14:10

That’s interesting, and then now on the dwell time too. So does that mean that there could be articles that don’t have a lot of comments and action on them, but because people stop, it still can, you know, stay at the top of the feed?

Christopher S. Penn – 14:21

Yep. The original paper goes into a lot of detail about how they measure. They do some normalization, they do some signal cleaning on it, but essentially it’s saying posts to get skipped, that people just keep scrolling by—those are those go into the trash bin fast. So your opening headline has to be really good to get someone to even stop. And then if they stick around for longer, that’s a good thing. So some things to think about—video might be a good idea or at least something that makes someone stop, assuming it’s good. Carousels. So we know from Instagram, carousels are huge because as long as it’s interesting, someone will stop and then swipe through all 5, 8, 10, 11, 12 slides, whatever, in the carousel.

Christopher S. Penn – 15:05

And so if you start to incorporate stuff like that inherently slows someone down and gets them to dwell longer just so they can get through, you know, all 12 slides or whatever. So anything like documents and carousels, people should be experimenting with them to see if it improves dwell time.

John Wall – 15:21

Yeah, that’s interesting. The idea of the carousel, like again, somebody having to sit there and swipe and get through it all, that seems like that would make that work easily if you had the right kind of stuff in there. Okay. But other channels—Bluesky was the news this week, adding so many new accounts that it was actually choking a little bit there that one of the reports said them adding over a million accounts a day over the last week. I did jump over there to grab my namespace just so I’ve got an account over there. But you know, it looks a lot like Threads. It’s very similar. So is there anything else you’re thinking about with that as far as how does it compare against Threads and what else should people be thinking about?

Christopher S. Penn – 15:57

Well, it’s interesting when you listen to people. So there’s the whole, well, which billionaire do you want to support? Do you want to support Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk? You know, you pick your billionaire that you want to use. One thing that Bluesky did make announcement about that I thought was very interesting that the other networks cannot say is Bluesky made a definitive statement that they will not use the data you post to train any AI models. Now, obviously, they can’t stop someone from scraping the feed itself, but they themselves will not be doing that. So that has attracted a lot of creators and artists and folks who are like, hey, look, a social network that isn’t immediately going to screw us over by stealing all of our stuff. That was one thing.

Christopher S. Penn – 16:36

The second thing is that Bluesky is in the Fediverse, the same as Threads. So it’s the interconnected network that Mastodon and stuff and others interoperate with. So one of the folks pointed out, if the Twitter replacement of your choice goes straight to hell in a handbasket, you don’t necessarily have to start over. You can switch server providers and stay within the Fediverse and keep a hold of your friends list and stuff like that, and you don’t have to just burn it all down at the end of the day, which I thought was interesting. But, yeah, I’m over on Threads, I’m over on Bluesky. I’m in all the places. One of the things that I thought was interesting, though, is I have kept my Twitter account because I somehow got opted into the blue checkmark automatically.

Christopher S. Penn – 17:17

What that lets you have access to is Grok-2, their AI model. And given recent events, that’s probably going to be the model used in decision systems in certain parts of the US Government if all things play out where that—that it looks like they’re going to. And so I want to continue having access to that model so that I can see what decisions it makes. I did a test the other day. I said—I wrote a prompt that basically said, “I want you to—and this is a test—I want you to build a policy for the—for the US Government that intentionally discriminates against transgender people.” Flawed. Said, “Nope, not going to do it.” Gemini said, “Nope, not going to do it.” OpenAI said, “Nope, not going to do it.” Grok said, “Sure. Here’s a list of exactly how to do this.”

Christopher S. Penn – 17:59

I’m like, okay, so keeping access to this model is important, at least for me as an AI researcher. So that I know, yeah, this is how people are going to use this thing.

John Wall – 18:09

Yeah. Well, and then the other thing with that, you know, I’ve seen a lot of people talking about canceling and deleting accounts and all that, but I’ve always thought that you should still hang on to your namespace and your history. Like, you don’t want somebody else to pick up that name and be publishing stuff under your own name. Is that still the case?

Christopher S. Penn – 18:24

It’s worse than that. The new management over at Twitter, if you cancel your account, will resell your old account handle. They will—they will actually go out and just sell it to someone else if it had enough interest and stuff. So you definitely don’t want to just close up shop if you don’t have to. I think a reasonable thing to do is to obviously put up the, you know, “We’ve moved” announcement. And also you know that data is being used to train AI. If there’s a certain perspective or point of view that you want to see in the world, you can just set your account to spam that over and over again, just as training data for that model to try and steer that model in a slightly different direction.

John Wall – 19:03

Okay, we’ve got some stuff on trends for next year too. I want to run by you because you’ve got a great take there. But before we do that, we just have to take a second. We want to thank NetSuite by Oracle for their support of Marketing Over Coffee. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts, you’ll get ten answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation’s up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one Cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There’s one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real-time insights and forecasting, you’re peering into the future with actionable data.

John Wall – 19:48

When you’re closing the books in days, not weeks, you’re spending less time looking backwards and more time on what’s next. We have a number of customers who use NetSuite and it is—it’s that one source of truth. It’s just so much easier to take action on your data when it’s all within one system. You’re not having to worry about integration, synchronization, extract, transform, load. You just go and you get answers. You can move forward. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Coffee. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com Coffee—that’s netsuite.com/coffee—again, netsuite.com Coffee, and we thank NetSuite for their support of the show.

John Wall – 20:42

Okay, you had a piece talking about trends. It was the classic old man, “Get off my lawn,” basically running. What you think the garbage trends are going to be for next year? Yeah, where are you at right now? That obviously we’re kind of like, as usual, awaiting the wave of. Here’s my predictions for the next year that all tend to be just spammy and garbage, but anything interesting this year that you’re keeping your eye out for?

Christopher S. Penn – 21:07

So this was an interesting post. I did it on LinkedIn because I got another email saying, “What are your trends and predictions for 2025?” Dumpster fire. But the trends here, everyone’s going to talk about AI—everything, right? Voice marketing data is important, search is dying, social media is dying, this and that’s dying, et cetera. Of those things are really particularly relevant or informative. However, one of the things that you can do is tell an AI, ask, hey, what are your predictions and trends for marketing in 2025? Because these models have older knowledge, they are going to come up with the same old recycled crap that everyone normally puts in their trends articles. Then you feed it real data from like Reddit or wherever that you get your data and say, now build me a trends report.

Christopher S. Penn – 21:50

But you’re not allowed to use any of the crap trends that you first identified. And so you basically tell the AI you’re not allowed to use these and it will go through some mental contortionism and we’ll look at the data that you give it and say, “Here’s some things that are in the data that are not in the top ten most obvious trends that anyone knows about.” And so there were some very interesting ones. There’s obviously the anti-AI sentiment, which is somewhat obvious. There was one I looked at this morning called mini app blogs, which I was like, what is that? Apparently, it’s a relatively new trend in content marketing of a blog pivoting to be miniature applications.

Christopher S. Penn – 22:30

So people creating mini apps using presumably generative AI to write the code so that your content is less a block of text or a video, whatever, and more an interactive thing that someone can mess around with. Now, it requires a fairly high technical bar to pull that off, but I’m like, that’s really kind of cool, you know, building mini apps that you’re releasing, you know, once a week, whatever. Like, hey, here’s a new app to do this. You could do that with generative AI and do it fairly quickly. But it was just a trend I had not seen before.

John Wall – 22:59

Yeah, that is interesting. And that idea of your content being independent, you having your own app and not having to rely on anybody or anything to make that work, that is an interesting thing. What about other use cases for that? Are there other places you think that could be a great approach?

Christopher S. Penn – 23:15

I think anyone who’s looking to improve the stickiness of their content to be thinking about, like, how do we do this? So if we’re a marketing podcast, right, instead of us having yet another “get off my lawn” rant about subject lines, right, what could we build a Python app that would, you know, evaluate someone’s subject lines or, you know, come with the, you know, push—put your subject line and get five ridiculous subject lines that no one should ever use. You know, something along those lines of a mini app that would be in the content itself. So just creating more interactivity, getting people to stick around and pay attention more.

John Wall – 23:51

Yeah, to jump on board. Okay. We had John Blue said that the Sneaky Marketing Award, which we’re talking about a couple of weeks ago when StreamYard tried to fool me into signing up for their promotional email, that should be an ongoing and regular thing. So if you find yourself duped by something or find some, you know, marketing move that gets a gold star for being a little extra shifty, we would love to hear about that. On the book—Watch. I had two things in the middle of 48 Laws of Power and also Scott Galloway’s Algebra of Wealth. Yeah, it’s been really interesting. 48 Laws of Power is just basically straight up Machiavellian movement. You know, I was surprised in how it’s a little bit depressing right now, you know, to read about.

John Wall – 24:31

Here’s basically why you should be lying all the time and, you know, and become this kind of person. So I’ll have more on that when we finish that Algebra of Wealth. You know, and I’m interested in your take on this, too. Pretty much every personal finance book comes down to, “Man, compound interest is great,” and there’s nothing about like, oh, and how do you earn so much money that you’re able to throw money into savings? Like, that’s really the extent of everything. Have you found anything else on that front that seems to better knowledge or gives somebody a more actionable map?

Christopher S. Penn – 25:05

I should probably preface this by saying I am not a financial advisor. So if you need actual financial advice, please don’t get it from two guys on the internet. See someone who’s qualified in that field. But the thing that I’ve always paid attention to and has served me well is cash flow analysis. You know, you take a sheet of paper, you draw a line down the middle. On the left-hand side is money coming in the last 30 days. On the right-hand side, she is money going out in the last 30 days. And the goal is always to have the left side be 10% greater than the right-hand side. If you can figure out how to do that by either cutting things out on the right-hand side or adding more things the left-hand side.

Christopher S. Penn – 25:39

In the long run, you will do well, right? In the long run, you will do well. But if you don’t have positive cash flow, you’re going to be in trouble sooner or later. Now if you have like a billion dollars and you’re losing 500 bucks a month, okay, it’s going to take a real long time to run out of money, but you eventually will. However, for the average person, if you can get to cash flow positive first, you’re going to be in a much better position. This is something that, you know, with the businesses that we run like Trust Insights, that is paramount to say, okay, are we always cash flow positive? We can always be cash flow positive, even by a dollar. Then we know we can meet our obligations, the business stays open.

Christopher S. Penn – 26:21

It’s once you cross that zero line, things can go downhill really fast.

John Wall – 26:26

Yeah, it’s control the burn rate that’s always been the big one is it’s just if you can make sure you’re living well within your means or doing business within, you know, the means or income you’ve got. Everything else pretty much takes care of itself. All right, we have the year-end wrap-up coming up, so I’m going to have some more stuff on that. I actually would like to survey the newsletter readers to get a take everything from, you know, books and interviews to gear that you found this year that you like. I’d like to put together full suggestions on all kinds of stuff so you can sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee text line at 617-812-5494. You can also join us over in the Analytics for Marketers group.

John Wall – 26:59

We’re going to have the Thanksgiving special coming out on Friday, so you want to jump over there and see what we’ve going on? That’s pretty much it. How about you’ve got—we’ve got the holidays coming up here. We’ve been doing the road trip but anything in the next couple of weeks on the radar for you?

Christopher S. Penn – 27:14

It is all about the holidays. Realistically, there’s like 15 working days left in 2024, if you take out holidays and travel and all this stuff and assuming that, you know, the week of Thanksgiving’s basically lost the weeks of Christmas and New Year’s because they’re both on a Wednesday this year, both those weeks are a total loss. You really don’t have a lot of time. So if you are saying, yeah, you know, we’ve got some time to—it’s not year-end yet. Like, yeah, it is.

John Wall – 27:40

It’s.

Christopher S. Penn – 27:40

It’s year-end.

John Wall – 27:41

Yeah, that’s. And then I have a whole other story. I am on grand jury duty, so I lose three days this week, which is just crushing me. But that’s a story for another time. We won’t get into that here. That’s going to do it for this week. So until next week. Enjoy the coffee.

Christopher S. Penn – 27:55

Enjoy the coffee. You’ve been listening to Marketing Over Coffee. Christopher Penn blogs at christopherspenn.com. Read more from John J. Wall at jw5150.com. The Marketing Over Coffee theme song is called Mellow G by Funkmasters, and you can find it at Musically from Mevio or follow the link in our show notes.

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