Intro

Want Kipp's Loop Marketing Prompt Library (over 100 prompts)? Get it for free: https://clickhubspot.com/elm

Episode 74: Is SEO really dead—and if so, what’s the number one marketing skill you need to stay ahead in 2025? Matt Wolfe (https://x.com/mreflow) and Kipp Bodnar (https://x.com/kippbodnar), CMO of HubSpot, unravel the post-AI marketing landscape and the strategies you’ll need to thrive.

Kipp Bodnar is one of the world’s most influential marketing leaders and the Chief Marketing Officer at HubSpot, where he is pioneering the integration of AI into every layer of modern marketing. Known for his hands-on expertise and his “Marketing Against the Grain” podcast, Kipp dives into how AI is upending everything from day-to-day productivity to industry-defining strategy.

This episode explores why “taste” trumps tactics in an AI-first world, how HubSpot achieved a 400% boost in email engagement using AI personalization, and why anyone can build faster, smarter, and more standout brands by mastering the new dynamic marketing loop. Matt and Kipp break down the brand new Loop Marketing Playbook, the death (and rebirth) of SEO, and what it means to optimize for AI engines instead of search engines.

Check out The Next Wave YouTube Channel if you want to see Matt and Nathan on screen: https://lnk.to/thenextwavepd

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Show Notes:

• (00:00) AI's Impact on Marketing

• (05:35) AI Productivity and Automation Hacks

• (06:28) Wispr Flow: Streamlined Voice Dictation

• (11:00) Super Intelligence Abundance and Human Consumption

• (14:50) Decline in Website Visits

• (18:33) SEO Principles Apply to AEO

• (21:00) Taste Differentiates: Know Your Audience

• (24:38) Leveraging AI for Marketing Success

• (27:00) “Moving the Free Line” Concept

• (30:50) Real-Time AI Reporting Loop

• (34:40) Understanding Customers Beats AI

• (38:18) Optimal Time for MVP Testing

• (41:14) Post-AI Marketing Playbook

• (42:32) Personalization Is Key in Marketing

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Mentions:

• Kipp Bodnar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kippbodnar/

• HubSpot Loop Marketing: https://www.hubspot.com/loop-marketing

• Marketing Against the Grain podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marketing-against-the-grain/id1616700934

• Wispr Flow: https://wisprflow.ai/

• Intelligence Superabundance: https://www.notboring.co/p/intelligence-superabundance

• Genspark: https://www.genspark.ai/

Get the guide to build your own Custom GPT: https://clickhubspot.com/tnw

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Check Out Matt’s Stuff:

• Future Tools - https://futuretools.beehiiv.com/

• Blog - https://www.mattwolfe.com/

• YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@mreflow

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Check Out Nathan's Stuff:

• Newsletter: https://news.lore.com/

• Blog - https://lore.com/

The Next Wave is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by Hubspot Media // Production by Darren Clarke // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano