Embracing Failure and Innovation

Melissa Perri is the CEO of Produx Labs, a product management training organization; author of the seminal PM book The Build Trap; and a former Harvard Business School professor of product management. Denise Tilles is the CPO at Grocket, Melissa’s colleague at Produx Labs, and a seasoned product leader with over a decade of experience. Together they authored the new book Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale. In today’s episode, they share insights, strategies, and real-world experiences to master all things product ops. We discuss:

• What exactly product operations is

• The three pillars of the product ops role

• The biggest benefits of adding product ops to your organization

• Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

• How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

• Examples of companies that have implemented product ops well

• Who and how to hire for this role

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This entire episode is brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/#transcript

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Where to find Melissa Perri:

• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/

• Website: https://produxlabs.com/

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Where to find Denise Tilles:

• X: https://twitter.com/dtilles

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisetilles/

• Website: https://www.denisetilles.com

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) About our guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

(03:46) How common is the product operations role?

(07:41) The benefits of having a product ops person in your organization

(09:16) How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

(11:44) The three pillars of the product ops role

(15:25) How user research fits in

(18:35) Why product ops will be an essential role for product managers to thrive

(24:24) Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

(28:58) Project management vs. product ops

(29:44) The jobs of a product ops person

(37:38) Why the product ops role will never become obsolete

(39:31) How many product ops people you need

(45:13) First steps in building out a product ops team

(47:06) What to look for in your first hire

(51:11) Key skills needed for a product ops person

(57:29) Who product ops should report to

(59:50) An example of rolling out product ops at Athena Health

(1:09:35) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale: https://www.productoperations.com/

• Produx Labs: https://produxlabs.com

• How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy-melissa-perri/

• Blake Samic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakesamic/

• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X

• Athena Health: https://www.athenahealth.com/

• Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

• PopSQL: https://popsql.com/

• Understanding the role of product ops | Christine Itwaru (Pendo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/

• Doodle: https://doodle.com/en/

• Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Dovetail: https://dovetail.com/

• Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker/

• Brian Bhuta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbhuta/

• How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey-winters-pinterest-eventbrite-airbnb-tinder-canva-reddit-grubhub/

• Shared services model: https://www.gartner.com/en/finance/insights/shared-services-model

• Shintaro Matsui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smatsui/

• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/

• Jen Cardello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jencardello/

• Tim Davenport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-davenport-28249b9/

• Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral: https://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Genius-Rivalry-Delusion-Billion-Dollar/dp/0593299752

• The Art of Action: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Action-10th-Anniversary/dp/1529376963

• Continuous Discovery Habits: Discover Products that Create Customer Value and Business Value: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309

• Deutschland89 on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/deutschland-89-a4cf05f7-b4f2-44c7-84a1-4034671944b9

• The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81414665

• Love Is Blind on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601

• The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80189221

• Dragonboat: https://dragonboat.io/solution/product-operations/

• Vistaly: https://www.vistaly.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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