The Tension of Listening and Communicating as Leaders

Cody and Pat have been talking a lot about the tension of listening, but also communicating as leaders. They say sometimes it has to be back and forth where you're actually trying to figure things out. And even if you're not necessarily heard in that moment, there's a benefit to clarity. "Even bad communicators, bad organizations, what I mean by that is not unhealthy ones," Cody says.