Mitchell Waldrop's 'Complexity' brought complexity science into the limelight with an account of the early days of the Santa Fe Institute. One of the people who appear in this book is W. Brian Arthur, the engineer turned economist who found economics unsatisfactory — because it treated the economy purely as a system in equilibrium when he knew it very obviously wasn't.

In this episode, you'll hear from W. Brian Arthur, External Professor at the Santa Fe Institute, and Researcher at Palo Alto Research Center, as he explains his journey to understanding the economy as a non-equilibrium system, and his work on increasing returns. But what are increasing returns? Well in complexity terms, it's how positive feedback affects the economy.

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This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.