Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to unpack how to structure a people ops as a product team.
She shared four ways to build an HR squad, how to use a spider diagram for squad design, and why it’s smart to pilot just one squad first.
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(04:38) MPL Build is Live: First Five Posts & Call for Feedback
(05:40) Topic Intro: Structuring Teams for PeopleOps as a Product
(06:05) Skillset Shifts & Misconceptions Around “Restructuring”
(07:27) The “Squad” Model Explained: Origins, Roles, & Purpose
(10:05) What a Real Squad Looks Like in HR
(11:11) Assigning Roles Within Squads Based on Skill Spikes
(13:05) Spider Diagrams & Skill Mapping for Balanced Teams
(15:26) Aligning Squads to Initiatives, Funnels, or Metrics
(17:54) Alternatives to Funnels: Focusing on Metrics & Experience
(18:44) Adapting for Smaller Teams: Prioritizing Problems with Impact
(19:33) Balancing Squad Work with Core HR (“HumanOps”) Duties
(21:01) Real-World Squad Splits: Immediate Needs vs. Futureproofing
(23:02) Solving Root Problems to Avoid Endless Hiring Loops
(24:38) The Importance of a Shared Mission Across Squads
(25:07) Working in Sprints vs. Continuous Delivery in PeopleOps
(26:47) Measuring Progress & Reporting: Squad Leads vs. Line Managers
(28:51) Real Example: How Jessica’s Partner’s ML Team Uses Squads
(30:17) Career Progression in Squads: The “Entrepreneurial” Path
(32:49) Jessica on Preferring Projects Over People Management
(34:26) The Role of VP People or CHRO as “Chief Product Officer”
(35:10) Dropbox Example: Leading Culture Through Squad Strategy
(36:59) Coaching Mid-Level HR Team Members Through the Transition
(38:13) Addressing Career Anxiety & Skill Development in New Roles
(40:20) Challenges of Implementing Squads in Large Enterprises
(42:41) Practical Skills, Organizational Resistance & MVP Delivery
(44:23) Piloting with a Positive Halo Squad: Agile Rollouts That Stick
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
