In the nearly five years since launching this podcast, our inbox has received one type of question more than any other: “If I’m trying to change a system that just doesn’t want to change, how do I keep going? When should I admit defeat and leave?” As people who function as “professional resistance” in organizations all over the world, this questions always hits us hard—because change itself is hard and often can lead to burnout.

So we’re finally having this conversation out in the open to tackle why the people who care the most are the ones who leave. Rodney and Sam dig into why burnout is so common among change agents, how to identify signs of meaningful progress, and when individuals and leaders should see the writing on the wall and throw in the towel.

Oh, and we're on Instagram now! Check us out there for fun behind the scenes stuff and extra things you won't find anywhere else.

To see the video version of this episode, head on over to Youtube.

Mentioned references:

• "orthogonal"
• "wasta"
• "emotional labor of change": AWWTR Ep. 6
• "Sisyphean"
• "the maze and the mouse"
• "see through The Matrix"
• Mission-Based Team: FoHR Ep. 1
• "the yips"
• Rick Rubin
• EMDR Therapy
• Basecamp scandal: BNW Ep. 71

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Read the book that started it all at bravenewwork.com.