When Does a System Count as a Mind?

In this Mind-Body Solution colloquium, Joshua Bongard and Richard Watson explore a single unifying question: Why get together?From cells forming multicellular organisms, to individuals forming societies, to components assembling into minds and machines - integration is one of the deepest patterns in nature. But why does it happen at all?TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) — Why Get Together? Opening framing: integration, relationship, and the central question of the episode(06:10) — From Parts to Wholes: Why explanation fails when systems are treated as isolated components(12:35) — Machines Within Machines: Bongard on nested systems, embodiment, and layered agency(18:40) — Evolution Isn’t Just Selection: Watson introduces the limits of natural selection as a creative explanation(25:10) — The “Engine” of Evolution: Fire vs engines: why selection alone misses the generative mechanism(31:45) — Natural Induction Explained: Evolution as relational reorganization, not frequency competition(38:20) — Learning, Adaptation, and Induction: How induction unifies evolution, cognition, and development(44:55) — Morphology Shapes Intelligence: Why bodies matter for minds (robots, organisms, and cognition)(51:30) — Embodiment as Constraint and Freedom: Physical form as a source of creativity, not limitation(57:50) — Love as a Scientific Question: Watson on care, attachment, and relational persistence(1:04:20) — What Holds Systems Together? Why stability emerges from relationships, not control(1:10:40) — Creativity Without Designers: No skyhooks: how novelty arises naturally without intelligent creators(1:17:15) — Artificial Life & Synthetic Minds: What robots teach us about evolution, intelligence, and cooperation(1:23:50) — Collective Intelligence: Crowds, swarms, societies, and shared cognition(1:30:30) — Meaning Beyond Optimization: Why efficiency alone cannot explain life, mind, or value(1:36:55) — Songs of Life and Mind: Watson’s unifying metaphor for evolution, learning, and becoming(1:43:30) — Ethics of Getting Together: Responsibility, care, and relational futures(1:49:45) — Why Disconnection Fails: What breaks when systems stop relating(1:55:10) — A New Integrative Science: Toward a framework beyond reductionism and mechanism(2:00:00) — Final Reflections: Why Get Together Now? Closing synthesis on integration, cooperation, and the futureEPISODE LINKS:- Josh's Website: https://jbongard.github.io/- Josh's Lab: https://www.meclab.org/- Josh's X: https://twitter.com/DoctorJosh- Josh's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Dj-kPasAAAAJ&hl=en- Josh's Round 1: https://youtu.be/3tTWKrLRYwI?si=doO99MnqW2TziiWC- Richard's Website: https://www.richardawatson.com/- Richard's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=DBDLLYQAAAAJ&hl=en- Richard's X: https://twitter.com/RichardWatson90CONNECT:- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org - YouTube: https://youtube.com/@mindbodysolution- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu - Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drtevinnaidu- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com=============================Disclaimer: The information provided on this channel is for educational purposes only. The content is shared in the spirit of open discourse and does not constitute, nor does it substitute, professional or medical advice. We do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred from you acting or not acting as a result of listening/watching any of our contents. You acknowledge that you use the information provided at your own risk. Listeners/viewers are advised to conduct their own research and consult with their own experts in the respective fields.