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i'm ono jeff has had a unique ability to think long term and make it clear he's thinking long terms, so the investors understand that this is a long term investment. One of the key people in those early days was this joy covey, who had been recruited as the cfo. When we started talking about going public, i'm john dor said, well, i'm going to vote against going public. Unless you bring in some more senior management. Going public, even if you're growing pretty well, you need a really first class cfo. You need some more marketing power. It's when david richer was recruited from microsoft, who was a very important