Payoffs of tolerating chaos to achieve hard things

Anne and Frances discuss tolerating chaos when doing hard work and how differences boost team performance.

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What if the very differences you’ve been trying to smooth out are actually your greatest leadership strengths? In this episode, I’m joined by renowned leadership coaches and Fixable hosts Frances Frei and Anne Morriss for a conversation about anxiety, being a neurodivergent leader, and what it really takes to lead well. We talk about how partnership at work and in life has taught them to communicate clearly, embrace conflict, and build teams that thrive because of difference. I ask Frances and Anne some listener questions, from micromanaging bosses to burnout, imposter syndrome, and the fear of being “known for DEI.” Tune in to discover how setting boundaries and rewriting your inner narrative transform the way you lead and feel in life and at work.

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In this Episode, You Will Learn

00:00 Meet Frances Frei & Anne Morriss.

06:00 What partners with different wiring teach each other.

12:45 How conflict actually drives high performance.

16:45 How being neurodivergent has shaped Frances’s leadership at Harvard.

20:00 The power of devotion and high standards.

23:45 What are the three elements of trust?

27:45 How listening can change a broken dynamic.

31:30 Why inconsistent boundaries are the same as no boundaries.

39:15 Is it risky to be known for DEI right now?

42:15 How to make inclusion feel expansive, not exclusive.