Why Dependence on China Persisted

This is a recording of my October 16, 2025 conversation with Ambassador Mike Froman Mike Froman about recent developments in the US-China trade war and US-China relations in general. I learned a lot from this conversation and I think you will as well.

Ambassador Froman is president of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and has had a distinguished career in the private sector and in public service, including as the head of USTR from June 2013 to January 2017.

He now writes a weekly newsletter called The World This Week, to which I encourage everyone to subscribe.

We also discussed some of his recent writings, including:

After the Trade War: Remaking Rules From the Ruins of the Rules-Based System - Foreign Affairs

China Has Already Remade the International System - Foreign Affairs

China, the United States, and the AI Race | Council on Foreign Relations

Thanks to everyone who watched our chat live.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sinocism.com/subscribe