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Justin Gary (@Justin_Gary) is an award-winning designer, author, speaker, and entrepreneur. He is CEO of Stone Blade Entertainment and creator of the innovative and award-winning Ascension deck-building game series. Prior to designing games, Justin was the youngest ever Magic: The Gathering US National Champion. He has studied creativity and applied the principles of design to create dozens of products over his 20 years in the industry for brands that include Marvel, World of Warcraft, and the Wharton School of Business. Today, he designs, consults, and teaches creativity around the world as a digital nomad.

Justin is also the author of Think Like a Game Designer: The Step-By-Step Guide to Unlocking Your Creative Potential and host of the Think Like a Game Designer podcast.

Please enjoy!

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This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

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This episode is also brought to you by ROKA Eyewear! ROKA makes the world’s most versatile eyewear—packing all the same features used by Olympic gold medalists and world champions into stylish everyday sunglasses and glasses. I’m incredibly impressed with ROKA. The quality is outstanding, and a lot of my friends who are elite athletes wear them. I’ve been using their Rory blue-light glasses after sunset, and I feel the improvement in my sleep quality.

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This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.

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[07:43] An origin story steeped in Magic.

[11:23] A debatable past.

[16:38] The life of a full-time Magic competitor.

[18:24] A philosophy major.

[19:45] Monopoly lessons learned from a family of lawyers.

[23:28] Innovations that made Magic an instant success.

[26:40] Magic game balance considerations.

[30:06] Justin exits his Magic career with an altered mindset.

[36:43] Too cool for law school.

[41:34] Risk is relative.

[43:39] From playing games to designing games.

[46:10] A Whack on the Side of the Head.

[49:53] Surfacing our assumptions.

[54:47] The core design loop and effective brainstorming.

[1:00:20] Brainstorming tools.

[1:02:01] Prototyping.

[1:06:26] The value of ugly first drafts.

[1:09:37] From company man to entrepreneur.

[1:15:45] Fear-setting and contingency planning.

[1:18:13] The early stages of startup life.

[1:24:05] TTP.

[1:25:21] Taking the company to the next level.

[1:31:43] Gaming GAMA and other trade shows.

[1:37:02] Eliciting feedback at the playtesting stage.

[1:42:32] Ascension debuts at Gen Con.

[1:47:04] The finances of game production.

[1:51:27] The pros and cons of selling a game to another company.

[1:53:54] Favorite failures.

[1:59:17] Maintaining relationships through failures.

[2:00:45] Lessons learned through trial and error.

[2:03:39] Putting the rule of three to work.

[2:05:21] Why Justin’s team communicates via Discord.

[2:07:49] How a trip to Thailand helped Justin escape his need for control.

[2:11:25] Justin’s billboard.

[2:12:49] Parting thoughts.

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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.

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