Papert: I've always been interested in the idea of what how can we make teaching most effective. And coming from a science background and working in a medical school, taking an evidence base proch has always seemed fairly logical to me. But i learned early on that perhaps it's not a view that is universally shared. The research we've done is to try and to find a compromise way through some of the arguments about that topic. Abll talk a bit more about later.