When people leave teams or leave companies, they're not open to feedback. It's like a painter who's like finished a painting and they're like, well, it's done. And I think in the earlier days of Intercom, for sure, when we had like much, much less engineers and designers that we had even products or product ideas, it was more to attempting for us to jumble people around. So there's a real benefit or like value in having somebody experienced it from idea, true to execution, true to feedback and course correction.