America’s Marco Rubio and Russia’s Sergey Lavrov have met in Saudi Arabia for Ukraine war peace talks. The US says a peace deal must be "fair, enduring and acceptable to all the parties involved" - not that all the parties - like Ukraine or the Europeans - were invited by Donald Trump to the first round of the talks.

So what do Russia and the US really want to get out from it? And will Russia be brought in from the cold internationally?

To discuss this on this episode of The Fourcast, Matt Frei is joined by Bronwen Maddox, the Director of the international think tank Chatham House, and Channel 4 News’ International Editor Lindsey Hilsum.

Produced by Silvia Maresca, Ka Yee Mak and Rob Thomson.